brain sizes: Einstein's and women's

Joseph A Nagy Jr pagan_prince at charter.net
Sat Aug 17 21:40:53 EST 2002


Tom Breton wrote:
<snip>
>>And nothing to do with male chivalry. As I qouted before, she got
>>the prize because she EARNED it. 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but that's just silly.  No man would have been given a
> Nobel prize for being Pierre's assistant.  You don't like hearing
> that, well, sorry.

No duh, but considering she wasn't just "Pierre's assistant", have you read the Nobel Committee's 
official take on this? Probably not.

> 
> 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >>Marie and her daughter set the French so far behind in nuclear research that
>> >>it's most likely she was part of a zionist plot to sabotage France
>> >>http://christianparty.net/curie.htm
>> > 
>> > 
>> > You know, I agree her accomplishments have been Feministly exaggerated
>> > out of all proportion, but I certainly don't agree she set back France
>> > or nuclear research.  AFAICT, she was a very capable assistant to
>> > Pierre.  It's not a negative thing.
> 
> 
>> Assistant my ass. You obviously didn't read the site, either.
> 
> 
> Yes, assistant, your ass.  Quoting some spin-doctor talking about
> "Marie's pivotal role" doesn't change the fact.  You've obviously put
> too much stock in what Feminists and chivalrists tell you.

No, I don't.

> 
> 
> 
>> She wasn't, just a smart woman, which makes her Jewish in Mr. Knight's eyes.
> 
> 
>> Chauvenist pigs like Mr. Knight and yourself are a discredit to the male of ANY species.
> 
> 
> I *knew* it!  The least bit of opposition, and the rabid name-calling
> starts already.

Yes, the name calling starts, but it's accurate.

> 
> That's the sort of emotional chivalry that keeps these notions going.
> Anyone can see that Marie Curie's is celebrated largely for her
> husband's work.  

Only if that anyone thinks a woman can't be as smart as a man (if not smarter).

>You don't like that, so you call me names, but that
> doesn't change the facts.

No it doesn't. Marie Curie discovered two elements (Polonium and Radium), among other scientic feats 
that her male counterparts DIDN'T do (with the exception of the physicists Becquerel and Pierre, 
although Becquerel didn't follow up as did Marie, and then her husband when he joined her in her 
research. To qoute from http://www.nobel.se/physics/articles/curie/:

"Results were not long in coming. Just after a few days, **Marie discovered** that thorium gives off 
the same rays as uranium. Her continued systematic studies of the various chemical compounds gave 
the surprising result that the strength of the radiation did not depend on the compound that was 
being studied. It depended only on the amount of uranium or thorium. Chemical compounds of the same 
element generally have very different chemical and physical properties: one uranium compound is a 
dark powder, another is a transparent yellow crystal, but what was decisive for the radiation they 
gave off was only the amount of uranium they contained. Marie drew the conclusion that the ability 
to radiate did not depend on the arrangement of the atoms in a molecule, it must be linked to the 
interior of the atom itself. This discovery was absolutely revolutionary. From a conceptual point of 
view it is her most important contribution to the development of physics. She now went through the 
whole periodic system. Her findings were that only uranium and thorium gave off this radiation.

Marie's next idea, seemingly simple but brilliant, was to study the natural ores that contain 
uranium and thorium. She obtained samples from geological museums and found that of these ores, 
pitchblende was four to five times more active than was motivated by the amount of uranium. It was 
her hypothesis that a new element that was considerably more active than uranium was present in 
small amounts in the ore."

To qoute some more:

"Fascinating new vistas were opening up. **Pierre gave up his research into crystals and symmetry in 
nature which he was deeply involved in and **joined Marie in her project****. They found that the 
strong activity came with the fractions containing bismuth or barium. When Marie continued her 
analysis of the bismuth fractions, she found that every time she managed to take away an amount of 
bismuth, a residue with greater activity was left. At the end of June 1898, they had a substance 
that was about 300 times more strongly active than uranium. In the work they published in July 1898, 
they write, 'We thus believe that the substance that we have extracted from pitchblende contains a 
metal never known before, akin to bismuth in its analytic properties. If the existence of this new 
metal is confirmed, we suggest that it should be called polonium after the name of the country of 
origin of one of us.' It was also in this work that they used the term radioactivity for the first 
time. After another few months of work, the Curies informed the l'Académie des Sciences, on December 
26, 1898, that they had demonstrated strong grounds for having come upon an additional very active 
substance that behaved chemically almost like pure barium. They suggested the name of radium for the 
new element."

I could go on but it would be useless, as I believe I have made my point.

> 
> And take a moment to consider: In light of what you just called me for
> nothing more than what I said, it's very clear that the whole issue is
> colored by chivalry and a misguided notion that you are somehow
> "defending" women by believing this.

How's it a misguided notion to defend someone's work?! And so what if it's colored with Chivalry? 
Chivalry is something that is lost in this world. More men need to be kinder to the opposite sex. 
How can you call yourself a gentleman and NOT respect a woman, especially once as smart and talented 
as Marie Curie? Or any other female scientist past and present? Or any other woman at all? A womans 
place is at a mans side as his EQUAL, because that is what they are. They are equal to you and me in 
every way. So they have different organs, but how else would we reproduce (of course ameoba's and 
other single celled organisms reproduce asexually and don't seem to suffer any ill effects)?

Hell, if Marie Curie had been a man I'd be defending him just as vehemently as I do her.




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