brain sizes: Einstein's and women's
lojbab at lojban.org
Mon Aug 26 19:28:25 EST 2002
"John Knight" <jwknight at polbox.com> wrote:
>NO where is it written that Isaac was a Jew
He wasn't. As I've said repeatedly, the Hebrew word that you've been
transliterating as "Yehudiy" and various other ways, means "descendant
of Judah". The Jews are spiritual descendants of Judah and therefore
>and no such thing as a Jewis
>ever recorded until 1000 years after the death of the 12 princes of
Given the *definition* of a Jew as a (spiritual) descendant of Judah,
it was implicit in living in the land of Judah that all who lived
there were Jews.
Since there was no need to distinguish the Jews from the other
descendants of Abraham until the split of the two kingdoms, and
especially after the Assyrian exile of Israel, of course the Hebrew
word for a descendant of Judah was not particularly common in the
>NO WHERE IS IT WRITTEN ABRAHAM WAS A JEW
>NO WHERE IS IT WRITTEN THAT ISAAC WAS A JEW
>NO WHERE IS IT WRITTEN THAT ISRAEL WAS A JEW
>NO WHERE IS IT WRITTEN THAT JUDAH WAS A JEW
>NO WHERE IS IT WRITTEN THAT THE JEWS ARE GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE
>.... If so, produce that verse.
The chosen people were ALL the descendants of Israel who kept the way
of the Lord:
1 Chr. 16:13
> O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.
When the nation of Israel was carried away into captivity and
destroyed, this left only the descendants of Judah as an intact
nation, and that is when they started calling the chosen people
> And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
> And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
> And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.
> Thus saith the LORD; Again there shall be heard in this place, which ye say shall be desolate without man and without beast, even in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, that are desolate, without man, and without inhabitant, and without beast,
> The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: and of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD.
> Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Again in this place, which is desolate without man and without beast, and in all the cities thereof, shall be an habitation of shepherds causing their flocks to lie down.
> In the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the vale, and in the cities of the south, and in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, shall the flocks pass again under the hands of him that telleth them, saith the LORD.
> Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
> In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
> In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
> For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
> Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
> And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying,
> Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
> Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.
> As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.
> Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
> Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
> Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
> Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Note that verse 8 is God's answer, explaining Christ's criticism of
the sins of the Jews.
Note also the prophecy that Christ would be born of the house of Judah
(Jer. 33:15). There is a similar verse in Isaiah. It was thus vital
to Biblical prophecy that Christ be Yehudiy (i.e. a descendant of
> Therefore ye shall publish the copy of this letter in all places,
> that the Jews may freely live after their own laws.
> And ye shall aid them, that even the same day, being the
> thirteenth day of the twelfth month Adar, they may be avenged on
> them, who in the time of their affliction shall set upon them.
> For Almighty God hath turned to joy unto them the day, wherein
> the chosen people should have perished.
Oh, and incidentally AddEsth. 1:3-9
> A little fountain became a river, and there was light, and the sun, and much water: this river is Esther, whom the king married, and made queen:
> And the two dragons are I and Aman.
> And the nations were those that were assembled to destroy the name of the Jews:
> And my nation is this Israel, which cried to God, and were saved: for the Lord hath saved his people, and the Lord hath delivered us from all those evils, and God hath wrought signs and great wonders, which have not been done among the Gentiles.
> Therefore hath he made two lots, one for the people of God, and another for all the Gentiles.
> And these two lots came at the hour, and time, and day of judgment, before God among all nations.
> So God remembered his people, and justified his inheritance.
and from the New Testament:
> For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
> Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
> For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Back to the nincompoop:
>By repeating the same lies over and over, people are brainwashed into
>believing these perversions.
By repeating your lies over and over, you have brainwashed yourself
into believing your perversions.
>Once a Lemmings is brainwashed their pride will force them to continueto
>follow the lies of their false prophets. Think not, ok Lemmings produce
>the scripture where Abraham, Isaac or Jacob are identified as Jews.
>Produce the scripture where it is stated that "The Jews are God's chosen
>Of course I could be the liar,
>If a Jew is supposed to be an Israelite, then why don't they just usethe
Because the Israelites were carried away into captivity, and thus
separated from the people of Judah.
>Anyone can be a Jew, it is a matter of joining the organization, non
>Israelites can be Jews.
It is far from trivial to "join the organization". You have to be
adopted into the tribe/house of Judah, and to demonstrate your intent
to follow the ways of the Lord.
>Go not the way of the gentiles but go to the house of Israel vs the
>substitution. Go not the way of the gentiles but go to the Jews. The
>house of Israel is ONLY the physical descendants of the man Israel.
Adoption is a perfectly legitimate way to become a member of a family
and to share in the inheritance, and it has been so for millennia.
And remember that percentage of kids whose father is not the husband
of the mother. Over the several hundred generations since the time of
Abraham, even a 1% rate of cuckoldry makes it likely that EVERYONE has
a broken link.
>God did not give Israel to the Jews, God gave Israel to the seed of
And he gave Judah (Judea) to the seed of Judah.
>Note how they substitute the seed of Abraham with Jews. People
>who are NOT the seed of Abraham can be Jews.
Only by adoption into the tribe of Judah.
>If an Israelite or a non Israelite can become a Jew, then a Jew is notan
>Israelite and there is NOTHING a non Israelite can do to become an
>Israelite (unless he can chose his parents).
>ACTS 22:3 I ... a Jew [S#2453] , born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet
>brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught accordingto
>the perfect manner of the law of the fathers.
>#1 At this time ( present tense ) Paul is a Jew.
>#2 Born in Tarsus Cilicia ( also identified as a Roman citizen )
>#3 Taught to the manner of the law of the fathers.
>ACTS 23:6 Paul cried I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee
>#4 Paul is a Pharisee. (of course Paul was not born a Pharisee, he hadto
>BECOME a Pharisee )
He is the SON of a Pharisee.
> For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
> And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
> But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
>#8 As touching the law, a Pharisee. Being a Pharisee is a matter of
>following / teaching the law.
It also required being a Jew. Remember that the Pharisees were the
original followers of Talmud.
>If Paul was born a Jew, he could not become as a Jew nor could he become
Per Galatians, as quoted above, he was separated from his ancestry by
God's call. But he could still "become AS" a Jew.
>When you are born, you are not doing any thing for any reason. You donot
>think I am going to do this because... Above Paul said he BECAME as aJew
>that he might gain the Jews.
>The REASON he became as a Jew was so he could gain the Jews.
>Paul was a Benjamite: Benjamites are not born Jews, it is a matter of
>choice to become a Jew.
It is not. It is perhaps a matter of choice to become a non-Jew, but
your idol Hitler didn't buy that (and you don't either because you
claim that Hitler was a Jew because of his ancestry).
>Being a Jew is not a matter of heredity but a matter of choice.
Repeating it doesn't make it true. Clearly you are struggling to be
so repetitive and weak in your arguments.
>If one is a Jew by heredity,
Which is implicit in the name that they use.
>then the members of all 12 tribes would be Jews
>Assumption is adding information that is NOT given.
Like you do constantly throughout this argument, especially in
ASSuming that English semantics arguments apply to Hebrew words.
>When you add your
>assumptions and say they are the word of God, I guess that makes youa
Hence you are a liar, because you make more assumptions than anyone.
YOU are, for example, the one who ASSumed that Eve called the serpent
"the LORD", even though the word she used is ONLY used to refer to
> No where is 8 of the tribes ever identified as Jews.
Because they were carried away into captivity and later destroyed.
They were no longer a "nation". The Assyrians and later the
Babylonians followed a scorched earth policy and destroyed all of
Israel, and all of Judah except Jerusalem.
>of any Jew is recorded until 1000 years after the death of Moses ( in2
>Kings). Those identified as Jews were the split of the 3 tribes which
>were in the Judah split of the kingdoms. The members of these 3 tribes
>are the ONLY Jews ever identified in the whole bible.
>If a Jew is one who's mother is a Jew, then how can one have a motherwho
>is a Jew and not be a Jew?
>If a Jew is one who's father is a Jew, then how can one have a Jewish
>father and not be a Jew?
If you don't know the answer to these questions then why are you
babbling about "being a Jew is a matter of choice".
>If being a Jew is being a physical descendant
Obviously it isn't that.
>If one child of a set of parents was a Jew and a brother or sister ofthe
>same set of parents was not a Jew, then :
>#1 Being a Jew is NOT being a descendant of Jews or
>#2 Neither parents were Jews in the first place.
>#3 Tell me how one child could be a Jew and their sibling of the same
>parents is not a Jew? ( If indeed being a descendant of a Jew makes onea
You've given a couple of ways. If the Jew becomes a Christian per the
example of Paul, and is "separated from his mother's womb". YOU have
claimed that a Jew who marries a Gentile is cut off (though this isn't
[lots more repetitive blathering deleted]
>Did Jesus give up his Jew membership?
It is not "membership" in a club.
>JOHN 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not
>walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.
Give the whole quote, and we see that "Jewry" = "Judaea"
> After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.
> Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand.
> His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.
> For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world.
>Being a Jew was first one who belonged to a political sect, then it formed a religious sect.
>The Jews were in Galilee,
The Jews were in Judaea.
>so Christ could not avoid being around the Jews by hanging out in Galilee.
That specifically contradicts John 7:1. He DID walk in Galilee, so
that could not have been "Jewry".
>There were 7 pages of verses which use this wording. The walking hereis
>not with the feet but walking is being or doing something.
>It appears that Jesus made himself a Jew ... part of a religious sect,
>but of course he was not part of the sect that he denounced.
He was BORN a Jew.
>JOHN 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not
>walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.
>It appears after these events took place, Christ turned in his Jew
>membership??? I can't figure out what it means. It is only my guess.If
>you quote my guesses as some kind of bible truth, you are a fibber. Wedo
>know that "walk in Jewry" is not a reference to foot travel, but it is
>something Christ ceased from being or doing.
Blathering again. Can't even make up your mind what your lie of the
moment is, nincompoop.
I've just figured out that you probably didn't write most of this
baloney by looking at the bottom of this collection of tripe. Too
dishonest to attribute someone else's writing to the author, I see.
What a nincompoop.
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