brain sizes: Einstein's and women's
zayton at bellsouth.net
Thu Aug 29 20:24:08 EST 2002
"John Knight" <jwknight at polbox.com> wrote in message
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"Zayton" <zayton at bellsouth.net> wrote in message
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"John Knight" <jwknight at polbox.com> wrote in message
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There were Edomites living in Judaea
*Produce just one citation from the Bible to show that these are Edomites.
who claimed to be descendants of Abraham (but NOT Israelites),
*Of course they were Israelites.
and Christ told them that they were actually descendants of the devil, who
was a liar and the father of it. It's impossible for them to have been
Semites or Hebrews if they weren't descendants of Abraham,
*But they were descendants of Abraham. Jesus had already acknowledged this
before he also called them children of the Devil.
John 8:37: "I know that you are descendants of Abraham,...."
and the notion that they could have been Israelites is even more remote.
*Children of Abraham=Jews=Israelites=Hebrews.
Christ told them they were NOT "children of Abraham".
**As I pointed out above, he told them this AFTER he had acknowledged that
they WERE descendants of Abraham.
**Clearly, he is playing with words, and we must follow him carefully. What
he is saying bears no relationship to what you claim he is saying.
He told them that their "father" and His "father" were NOT the same. He
told them that He was one of the "children of Abraham", but they were not.
He told them the reason they seek to kill Him is that they were the
"children of the devil".
**He seems to mean this in the sense of "children" being those who follow
the example of a model who is,, in that spiritual sense, the "father" of
their spiritual natures; much in the same way that he refers to those who
follow the same spirituality the follows as his true "brothers and sisters".
Christ agreed ONLY that they were the "seed" of Abraham, and "seed" means
something entirely different than what you evidently think it means:
Oh John, John. I've read ahead, and you're about to prove _yourself_ wrong
Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because
my word hath not free course in you.
Joh 8:38 I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do
the things which ye heard from your father.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith
unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
OK. In this case your outdated translation is still quite workable.
The word "seed" is translated from the Greek word "sperma", which means
**No. Seed means seed. It includes human sperm as a kink of seed, and
clearly shows that He is saying that in a physical sense; those to whom he
is speaking are the children, offspring, descendants of Abraham.
>From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male "sperm"); by
implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over
for planting): - issue, seed.
**At this point, John, you have absolutely proved that you are wrong, and
that Jesus is absolutely and unmistakably indicating that those to whom he
is speaking are descendants of Abraham.
**Now you take up a side note from Strongs about a possible implication of
the word as it is sometimes used and try to change a meaning which is
already absolutely clear. You do not tell us where you get your definition
of remnant, and there is no reason to assume that it corresponds to the
rather specialized meaning in the Strongs citation., but let that pass. Even
the undocumented definition you have selected doesn't give the slightest
support to your position.
REM'NANT, n. [contracted from remanent. See Remain.]
1. Residue; that which is left after the separation, removal or destruction
of a part.
2. That which remains after a part is done, performed, told or passed.
The remnant of my tale is of a length to tire your patience.
Where I may think the remnant of my thoughts.
REM'NANT, a. Remaining; yet left.
And quiet dedicate her remnant life to the just duties of a humble wife.
"The remnants of my thoughts". "The remnants of Abraham".
**OK Basically, there was once more of something, now part of it is gone,
what is still there is called a "remnant".
If they were the "remnants" but not the "children" [read: descendants] of
AHA! But, you see John, in order to be "remnants", then by all of your own
definitions, they must BE children and descendants of Abraham. They are the
children, the "seed" who remain. Some have died. Some have abandoned their
faith, culture or nation. These remain! If they were never Children, Never
descendants, never offspring, then they could not BE a "remnant". ( Though
let us remember that Remnant is just a possible implication of the term, it
primarily means, quite simply, and quite precicely that their line sprang
from the sperm or seed of Abraham.
then it's obvious that Christ considered their genetic link to Abraham to
be so weak that He didn't even consider them to be Abraham's descendants.
**First you try to deny the link, then you try to say it is weak; but your
sources support neither claim.
This wasn't JUST a state of mind He was referring to. This was a state of
mind brought about by their genetic ancestry.
**He is quite clearly contrasting their genetic ancestry, as children of
Abraham, that is as Israelites, also called Jews: with the fact that they
are not feeling, thinking or acting as "children of Abraham" ought to.
Christ pointed out that their ancestor was "the devil", so obviously
Christ has a different ancestry than these jews.
**Spiritually speaking, Yes, precicely. You, of all people ought to get
this, John. You claim to be of Christ, but it is so very clear, that your
true spiritual father is also the father of lies.
For making that observation, and other unpopular observations, these jews
demanded that Christ be crucified.
And for making similar observations, you label people "Jews" and "niggers".
But do you know what the really funny thing is, John. From you, these labels
Joe (Proud to be thought a Jewish nigger by John Knight)
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