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Creationism and other doctrines. Was Mindforth

geakazoid azedia at dolfina.org
Sun Dec 29 18:40:26 EST 2002

rstevew at deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz) wrote in message news:<3e0cd0fd$0$79558$8eec23a at newsreader.tycho.net>...
> In article <3E020B78.D155ECD9 at ieee.org>, Jerry Avins  <jya at ieee.org> wrote:
> > 
> >Whatever it may connote, faith is a sufficiently strong belief on an
> >assertion's or view's correctness to warrant using it as a basis for
> >judgment and action.
> -------------------------
> That's a circularity, belief warrants nothing.
> > I believe that the systematic examination of
> >observable things, formulation of hypotheses about them, making
> >predictions based upon those hypotheses, verifying or disproving those
> >hypotheses and thereby gaining firm grounds for modifying them -- in
> >short, the process of science -- will lead to an understanding of
> >reality. But it's only a belief: acting on it is an act of faith.
> >Jerry
> --------------------------
> No, you undertake to determine the truth without a vested interest in
> proving this or that, and that is Science. Faith is the antagonist of
> all Science and Truth because it has a bias toward believing what it
> prefers, instead of what is the Truth, no matter how well you show
> that it is. Trying to prove what you already believe is NOT Science.
> And it is NOT Truth! Faith is vested dishonesty to the self and all
> others, nothing more.
> -Steve

Okay, you are on track about "you undertake to determine the truth
without vested interest in proving this or that" but you are off track
in Thinking that Belief and Faith are the Same Meaning:

>From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) : 
Faith \Faith\, n. [OE. feith, fayth, fay, OF. feid, feit, fei,
     F. foi, fr. L. fides; akin to fidere to trust, Gr. ??????? to
     persuade. The ending th is perhaps due to the influence of
     such words as truth, health, wealth. See Bid, Bide, and
     cf. Confide, Defy, Fealty.]
     1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is
        declared by another, resting solely and implicitly on his
        authority and veracity; reliance on testimony.
     2. The assent of the mind to the statement or proposition of
        another, on the ground of the manifest truth of what he
        utters; firm and earnest belief, on probable evidence of
        any kind, especially in regard to important moral truth.
              Faith, that is, fidelity, -- the fealty of the
              finite will and understanding to the reason.

>From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) : 

  Belief \Be*lief"\, n. [OE. bileafe, bileve; cf. AS. gele['a]fa.
     See Believe.]
     1. Assent to a proposition or affirmation, or the acceptance
        of a fact, opinion, or assertion as real or true, without
        immediate personal knowledge; reliance upon word or
        testimony; partial or full assurance without positive
        knowledge or absolute certainty; persuasion; conviction;
        confidence; as, belief of a witness; the belief of our
              Belief admits of all degrees, from the slightest
              suspicion to the fullest assurance.   --Reid.

One can be an Atheist and have Faith unless s/he has Belief in
Nothing. Then s/he has Belief.


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