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Creationism and other doctrines. Was Mindforth

Dennis Clark dlc at io.frii.com
Tue Dec 31 13:51:28 EST 2002

In comp.robotics.misc geakazoid <azedia at dolfina.org> wrote:

Your definitions are useful to the discussion, however...

Those stating that belief is the same for science as for religion miss a 
key point.

SOMEONE proved a scientific theory.  To them it is not belief, to those for
whom the science is explained, and they also do the experiments, it too is 
not simple belief.  It is knowledge.  Anyone can gain that knowledge with 
enough work and effort, no faith or groundless belief is required.  

The pope himself believes in god without a single piece of objective proof.

IOW, science == science whether you believe it or not.  

Religious beliefs are easier imparted and held through ignorance, not 

The nonsense of trying to call science "just another religion" is bunko 
written by those who would rather believe in something than know something.


: rstevew at deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz) wrote in message news:<3e0cd0fd$0$79558$8eec23a at newsreader.tycho.net>...
:> In article <3E020B78.D155ECD9 at ieee.org>, Jerry Avins  <jya at ieee.org> wrote:
:> > 
:> >Whatever it may connote, faith is a sufficiently strong belief on an
:> >assertion's or view's correctness to warrant using it as a basis for
:> >judgment and action.
:> -------------------------
:> That's a circularity, belief warrants nothing.
:> > I believe that the systematic examination of
:> >observable things, formulation of hypotheses about them, making
:> >predictions based upon those hypotheses, verifying or disproving those
:> >hypotheses and thereby gaining firm grounds for modifying them -- in
:> >short, the process of science -- will lead to an understanding of
:> >reality. But it's only a belief: acting on it is an act of faith.
:> >Jerry
:> --------------------------
:> No, you undertake to determine the truth without a vested interest in
:> proving this or that, and that is Science. Faith is the antagonist of
:> all Science and Truth because it has a bias toward believing what it
:> prefers, instead of what is the Truth, no matter how well you show
:> that it is. Trying to prove what you already believe is NOT Science.
:> And it is NOT Truth! Faith is vested dishonesty to the self and all
:> others, nothing more.
:> -Steve

: Okay, you are on track about "you undertake to determine the truth
: without vested interest in proving this or that" but you are off track
: in Thinking that Belief and Faith are the Same Meaning:

: From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) : 
: Faith \Faith\, n. [OE. feith, fayth, fay, OF. feid, feit, fei,
:     F. foi, fr. L. fides; akin to fidere to trust, Gr. ??????? to
:     persuade. The ending th is perhaps due to the influence of
:     such words as truth, health, wealth. See Bid, Bide, and
:     cf. Confide, Defy, Fealty.]
:     1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is
:        declared by another, resting solely and implicitly on his
:        authority and veracity; reliance on testimony.
:     2. The assent of the mind to the statement or proposition of
:        another, on the ground of the manifest truth of what he
:        utters; firm and earnest belief, on probable evidence of
:        any kind, especially in regard to important moral truth.
:              Faith, that is, fidelity, -- the fealty of the
:              finite will and understanding to the reason.
:                                                    --Coleridge.

: From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) : 

:  Belief \Be*lief"\, n. [OE. bileafe, bileve; cf. AS. gele['a]fa.
:     See Believe.]
:     1. Assent to a proposition or affirmation, or the acceptance
:        of a fact, opinion, or assertion as real or true, without
:        immediate personal knowledge; reliance upon word or
:        testimony; partial or full assurance without positive
:        knowledge or absolute certainty; persuasion; conviction;
:        confidence; as, belief of a witness; the belief of our
:        senses.
:              Belief admits of all degrees, from the slightest
:              suspicion to the fullest assurance.   --Reid.

: One can be an Atheist and have Faith unless s/he has Belief in
: Nothing. Then s/he has Belief.

: geakazoid

* Dennis Clark         dlc at frii.com                www.techtoystoday.com   * 
* "Building Robot Drive Trains" published by McGraw-Hill 2002              *    

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