brain sizes: Einstein's and women's

Jet thatjetnospam at
Sat Jul 6 18:50:45 EST 2002

Peter Douglas Zohrab wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm not a scientist or medical man,


 but I've recently sent the following
> email to Dr. Sandra F. Witelson (witelson at, of the Department of
> Psychiatry and Behavioral Neuroscience.  She hasn't really had time to read
> it and respond to it,

Well, don't hold your breath.

> but I heard her or Debra L. Kigar 

Or someone. You know, it doesn't help your credibility any when you show
you don't even know who you were listening to.

in a radio interview
> once, and I wasn't impressed with the apparent reluctance to follow a train
> of thought in a direction which led to un-Feminist conclusions,

Yeah, it's part of the vast feminist conspiracy.

 so I'm
> posting it here, as well.  I also have some experience of academics omitting
> to answer my awkward questions !

You misspelled "stupid". Why do you expect them to take you seriously
when you don't even know whose comments you are talking about?

> "On page you write, " In this
> same region, Einstein's brain was 15% wider than controls. These two
> features suggest that, in Einstein's brain, extensive development of the
> posterior parietal lobes occurred early, in both longitudinal and breadth
> dimensions...."
> You also state, "the findings do suggest that variation in specific
> cognitive functions may be associated with the structure of the brain
> regions mediating those functions."
> and later you write, "Einstein's brain weight was not different from that of
> controls, clearly indicating that a large (heavy) brain is not a necessary
> condition for exceptional intellect. "  I wonder, however, if that isn't a
> bit misleading -- in other words, is that the sole, or main conclusion that
> emerges from the facts ?
> Your use of the words "15% wider" clearly refers to size, 

No, color.

rather than
> structure, so we are obviously talking about size as well as structure here.

LOL. She said, "In this same region, Einstein's brain was 15% wider than
controls. These two features suggest that, in Einstein's brain,
extensive development of the posterior parietal lobes occurred early, in
both longitudinal and breadth dimensions...."

Let's break it down, she said, "in this same region". Now what region
could that be? Let's look for clues. She goes on to say, "These two
features suggest that, in Einstein's brain, extensive development of the
posterior parietal lobes..." Hmmmm...maybe she is saying that Einstein's
proserior parietal lobes were 15% larger than average, what do you

> So you are saying that the size of a particular part of the brain may be
> correlated with enhancement in a particular form of intelligence.  So, given
> that you are only interested in differences > or = to 2 SD's from the
> control mean (males with an IQ of 116), we must assume that this increase in
> the *size* of one part of Einstein's brain was either at the expense of the
> size of another part of his brain, or was not enough to push his otherwise
> average/small brain to 2SD's larger than the mean of your controls.

So what?

> Are all abnormally large sizes of a given part of the brain correlated with
> abnormally (and to an equivalent extent) small sizes of another (e.g.
> neighbouring) part of the brain, so that the size-differences cancel each
> other out ?  I assume that this is not the case.
> Assuming, for the sake of simplicity, that there are n forms of intelligence
> that are each associated with one particular part of the male brain, then
> surely it is conceivable, and it will often occur, that some of these parts
> will be, say, 5% larger than the male population mean, and some will be 5%
> smaller -- and sometimes parts will be 10% or 15% or even 20% larger or
> smaller than the mean.  It seems to me obvious that, in some individuals,
> the sum of these differences will result in a brain that is significantly
> larger or smaller than the mean,


> and that we should expect this to be
> correlated, respectively, with a higher or lower IQ,

Why would having a larger than average size of the part of the brain
that makes your bowels work make you have a higher IQ? You spend more
time on the toilet reading?

 since the IQ is the sum
> of scores in sub-tests of various forms of intelligence.
> I would be very grateful to hear your comments on these matters."

Let me explain it to you, it was quite's not the overall size
of the brain that matters, but the relative sizes of different parts of
the brain.
> What I am leading up to here is that the above webpage tries to ignore size
> and concentrate on structure, 
Because it was found that size didn't matter. 

for the simple reason that the two authors are
> both female, 

And this changed the size of Einstein's brain how?

and we all know that the average female brain is smaller than
> the average male brain.  

So what? Einstein's brain was no larger than the average males. The
whole point was that it was relative sizes of sections of the brain that
mattered, not the overall size of the brain. 

>If the female brain is smaller than the male brain,
> then this must be either because all of its parts are scaled-down versions
> of the equivalent parts of the male brain, or because there are
> size-differences of various sorts between the various parts of the two types
> of brains (including even the absence of one or more parts of the brain in
> the male or the female brain), 

IOW, you have no idea what you are talking about, and are just venting
your hatred of women.

such that these differences, in toto, 
> in a female brain that is smaller than its male equivalent.

You must have missed the part where she said Einstein had an average
size brain, but relatively large posterior parietal lobes. But it is fun
to watch someone who doesn't know what a lobe is act like he "caught" a
neuroscientist is some feminist cover up.

> If the fact that one part of Einstein's brain is 15 % larger than the mean
> for a sample of brains that output a mean IQ of 116 is causally connected to
> his "genius" (or whatever word you want to use), then there is a prima facie
> case to investigate, as regards the size-difference between male and female
> brains. 

If any male/female study were indicated, it would be about the relative
sizes of parts of the male and female brains. 

> In other words, if size mattered for Einstein versus the rest> us, 

Damn you are a dummy. She didn't say Einstein's brain was bigger than

we would not be wasting our time following up the idea that it might
> matter for male brains vs female brains.  I gather from the radio interview
> I heard

With someone...

 that big men don't have bigger brains than small men, and big women
> don't have bigger brains than small women -- so it's not a question of
> body-size that's at issue here.
> Now, it may well be that women's mean IQ is found to be the same as men's
> mean IQ, but, in view of the above discussion, that result would have to be
> a bit suspect. I have plenty of experience of academics

Writing to people with your woman hating theories is not "experience of

 preferring to state
> what is politically correct than what is true.  In fact, many academics
> consider it to be the height of naivety to state something that is merely
> true, when the opposite is widely known to be politically correct !

Why don't you donate your brain for her to study, you're not using it.


> See also:
> Peter Zohrab
> --
> Domestic Violence Bibliography
> New Zealand is run by Lesbians, and men are afraid they won't be real men if
> they contradict them! Manufacturing Concern
> The Next US President is a Batterer
> Review of Sex, Lies & Feminism by
> J. Steven Svoboda in Everyman: A Men's Journal

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