brain sizes: Einstein's and women's
cary at afone.as.arizona.edu
Fri Sep 6 15:59:29 EST 2002
In article <9jthnuke5pns5305fc6uanc9mobldmrila at 4ax.com> Bob LeChevalier <lojbab at lojban.org> writes:
[forgive the top-posting; I didn't want to snip a word]
Bob, thank you. I totally blew it in my response. I humbly apologize to the
(doubtless oblivious) Dr. Ignatiev for my knee-jerk reaction which led
me to lump him with likes of Farrakan, Kahane, Duke and the `poop.
Ignatiev is obviously using inflammatory language for effect, and
I tripped over the style and fell flat on my face before noticing
the substance: that he is advocating nothing more than tearing
the door off the Seekret Treehouse and letting the inmates
out. I applaud everything of his you quote, although like you
I don't buy into his economics-explains-all epistomology.
Well, off to practice my favorite form of Race Treachery: listening
to one of my 400-plus jazz CDs.
<"John Knight" <jwknight at polbox.com> wrote:
<>The purpose is to prevent whites from appreciating and
<>absorbing their own culture
<There is no "white culture".
<There is "Western culture" which excludes the whites of Asia and
<includes the non-whites of South America; there might be something
<called "European culture" that excludes the Western Hemisphere as well
<as Asia, but there really are limits to that which is shared by
<Britain and Albania, Spain and Russia.
<>To the questions, "who am I, what am I," the white university graduate
<>answers: "a racist, sexist, homophobic oppressor."
<I'm a white university graduate, and my answer is "a human being" to
<both questions. Unlike the nincompoop.
<>Neither parents, trustees, alumni, nor the public are aware of the
<>anti-white propaganda that masquerades as education. When someone who is
<>aware tells them, they think the person is exaggerating in order to make a
<Probably because s/he is.
<>Now comes Harvard educated Noel Ignatiev, an academic at Harvard's W.E.B.
<>DuBois Institute for African-American Research. Dr. Ignatiev is the founder
<>of a journal, Race Traitor, which has as its motto, "treason to whiteness is
<>loyalty to humanity."
<>The journal's purpose is "to abolish the white race."
<A sound idea. There is no such thing as the "white race" except in
<the minds of certain nutcases who seek a racial explanation of
<It appears that Dr. Ignatiev is attempting to provoke controversy and
<make a name for himself and his ideas through his provocative
<I can't say that I support him, but I don't think he is "wrong" is the
<way the nincompoop is always "wrong".
<>At the least, Dr. Ignatiev intends cultural and psychological genocide for
<You cannot commit cultural genocide when there is no culture. It is
<clear that Dr. I has no problem with the preservation of Irish
<culture, German culture, Spanish culture, Greek culture.
<Dr. I most clearly does NOT intend psychological genocide, whatever
<that may be. The poster seems to try to set up a strawman, which
<anyone reading Dr. I's site will find is erroneous.
<Here is his mission statement:
<>What We Believe
<>The white race is a historically constructed social formation. It
<> consists of all those who partake of the privileges of the white skin
<> in this society. Its most wretched members share a status higher, in
<> certain respects, than that of the most exalted persons excluded from
<> it, in return for which they give their support to a system that
<> degrades them.
<>The key to solving the social problems of our age is to abolish the
<> white race, which means no more and no less than abolishing the
<> privileges of the white skin. Until that task is accomplished, even
<> partial reform will prove elusive, because white influence permeates
<> every issue, domestic and foreign, in US society.
<>The existence of the white race depends on the willingness of those
<> assigned to it to place their racial interests above class, gender,
<> or any other interests they hold. The defection of enough of its
<> members to make it unreliable as a predictor of behavior will lead to
<> its collapse.
<>RACE TRAITOR aims to serve as an intellectual center for those seeking
<> to abolish the white race. It will encourage dissent from the
<> conformity that maintains it and popularize examples of defection
<> from its ranks, analyze the forces that hold it together and those
<> that promise to tear it apart. Part of its task will be to promote
<> debate among abolitionists. When possible, it will support practical
<> measures, guided by the principle, Treason to whiteness is loyalty to
<>According to press reports and our own correspondents, the white race
<> is showing signs of fracture in the rural midwest. Several female
<> students at North Newton Junior-Senior High School near Morocco,
<> Indiana, who call themselves the "Free to Be Me" group, recently
<> started braiding their hair in dreadlocks and wearing baggy jeans and
<> combat boots, a style identified with Hip-Hop culture.
<Expressing positive thoughts about a group of students advocating the
<concept "free to be me" sounds like the antithesis of "psychological
<>It is unclear whether physical extermination is part of the program.
<Only because the poster is incapable of reading the site. The
<following specifically disavows that, though the mission statement
<should have made it clear.
<>The white race is a historically constructed social formation -
<> historically constructed because (like royalty) it is a product of
<> some people's responses to historical circumstances; a social
<> formation because it is a fact of society corresponding to no
<> classification recognized by natural science.
<>The white race is a club, which enrolls certain people at birth,
<> without their consent, and brings them up according to its rules. For
<> the most part the members go through life accepting the benefits of
<> membership, without thinking about the costs. When individuals
<> question the rules, the officers are quick to remind them of all they
<> owe to the club, and warn them of the dangers they will face if they
<> leave it.
<>RACE TRAITOR aims to dissolve the club, to break it apart, to explode
<> it. Some people who sympathize with our aim have asked us how we
<> intend to win over the majority of so-called whites to anti-racism.
<> Others, usually less friendly, have asked if we plan to exterminate
<> physically millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of people. Neither
<> of these plans is what we have in mind. The weak point of the club is
<> its need for unanimity. Just as the South, on launching the Civil
<> War, declared that it needed its entire territory and would have it,
<> the white race must have the support of all those it has designated
<> as its constituency, or it ceases to exist.
<>RACE TRAITOR exists, not to make converts, but to reach out to those
<> who are dissatisfied with the terms of membership in the white club.
<> Its primary intended audience will be those people commonly called
<> whites who, in one way or another, understand whiteness to be a
<> problem that perpetuates injustice and prevents even the
<> well-disposed among them from joining unequivocally in the struggle
<> for human freedom. By engaging these dissidents in a journey of
<> discovery into whiteness and its discontents, we hope to take part,
<> together with others, in the process of defining a new human
<> community. We wish neither to minimize the complicity of even the
<> most downtrodden of whites with the system of white supremacy nor to
<> exaggerate the significance of momentary departures from white rules.
<Given the above, their applauding of "white" girls wearing dreadlocks
<as a form of self-expressing seems quite consistent.
<>A statement by the editors on the web site says that the new abolitionists
<>"do not limit themselves to socially acceptable means of protest, but reject
<>in advance no means of attaining their goal."
<But their goal is not what is implied by the poster. And their
<methods are not what is implied either:
<>The way to abolish the white race is to disrupt that conformity. If
<> enough people who look white violate the rules of whiteness their
<> existence cannot be ignored. If it becomes impossible for the
<> upholders of white rules to speak in the name of all who look white,
<> the white race will cease to exist. The abolitionists are traitors to
<> the white race; by acting boldly they jeopardize their membership in
<> the white club and their ability to draw upon its privileges.
<>Finally, we know how devilishly difficult it is for individuals to
<> escape whiteness. The white race does not voluntarily surrender a
<> single member, so that even those who step outside of it in one
<> situation find it virtually impossible not to step back in later, if
<> for no other reason than the assumptions of others. But we also know
<> that when there comes into being a critical mass of people who,
<> though they look white, have ceased to act white, the white race will
<> undergo fission, and former whites will be able to take part,
<> together with others, in building a new human community.
<>What "social construct" will be left? A black one? An Hispanic one? Muslim?
<>Asian? What about Jewish?
<I think he would rather that all "social constructs" that define a
<person socially by their birth be abolished. He would rather that
<people define themselves as individuals. However, he doesn't address
<any other social construct besides the white race.
<Actually, I'll amend that. In
<He apparent identifies "whiteness" with the "master" race that he
<believes is implicit in a capitalist society wherein some are
<"masters" and some are "slaves". In this he seems to adopt some
<Marxist concepts, and he is described in one article as being a
<onetime Marxist advocate. But I have no trouble keeping his economic
<ideas separate from his sociological ones.
<>The Washington Times reports that Dr. Ignatiev is himself Jewish.
<No. It says his parents were Jewish. Since Ignatiev is reported to
<be a Marxist, he may not consider himself to be Jewish.
<>intellectuals and Israeli political leaders can be believed, Jews have a
<>cultural and racial consciousness. Israel is the Jewish homeland, and
<>Israelis seem determined to keep it that way. Can anyone imagine a gentile
<>at an Israeli university founding a magazine devoted to abolishing the
<I suspect he wouldn't use such words. But he wouldn't need to.
<>Yet, Dr. Ignatiev believes that it is self-evident that whites in their
<>homelands should be abolished.
<No. He believes that it is self-evident that the fact that they are
<considered "white" should be abolished; he would rather that they be
<>Where did he get this view? His only education was at Harvard where he
<>received two graduate degrees.
<Anyone who thinks that one's education starts and ends with where they
<went to college is a nincompoop. But we already knew that.
<>Is Harvard embarrassed? No. Dr. Ignatiev [ignatiev at fas.harvard.edu] is
<>showcased in the current issue of Harvard Magazine. Getting rid of whiteness
<>is not controversial at Harvard, because it is the business of American
<Actually, it apparently IS controversial at Harvard. From the
<>His colleagues at Harvard seem not to take his proposal entirely
<> seriously. Others cite the article as an example of Harvard's
<> institutional racism.
<>The privilege of being white is that whites can secretly believe they are
<>superior and, as long as they don't mention it, be loyal to the white race.
<Indeed. And Dr. I. seems to think that is an ungood thing.
<>But Dr. Ignatiev has an idea like Hitler. A race is guilty and must go. The
<>communists said it was a guilty class that had to go.
<Dr. I's idea is more like the Communists than like Hitler. You can
<eliminate a class or a race other than by killing people - you get
<them to think of themselves as not being in that class or race.
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