Decartes Spinoza Damasio and 'emotions'
k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net%remove%
Sat Apr 19 15:13:02 EST 2003
"KP-PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net%remove%> wrote in message news:t0foa.35535$cO3.2666855 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
"I Feel, Therefore I Am", By EMILY EAKIN
"When Dr. Damasio presented his findings in "Descartes' Error," the book was greeted as a breakthrough. (An international best seller, it has been translated into 24 languages.) "It's one thing to have a speculative theory about the role of reason and the role of emotions," said Patricia Churchland, a neurophilosopher at the University of California in San Diego. "For the first time, his lab really showed" that "you can't shut off all the emotions from rational decision-making.`"
This's False attribution of Priority.
"His theory is both elaborate and counterintuitive, involving a chain reaction that begins when an emotion (defined as a change in body state in response to an external stimulus) triggers a feeling (the representation of that change in the brain as well as specific mental images). In other words, feelings do not cause bodily symptoms but are caused by them: we do not tremble because we feel afraid; we feel afraid because we tremble."
It's all 'just' TD E/I-minimization, left 'uncomprehended'.
The "duality" inherent in NDT is not Decartes' "duality". NDT explains that =everything= that occurs within nervous systems is 'just' TD E/I-minimization, and that various external observables occur only as by-products of TD E/I-minimization.
This "primary"\"secondary" ["produce"\"by-product"] differentiation is the "duality" that's inherent in NDT. Nervous systems 'strive', 'blindly' and automatically, to achieve TD E/I-minimization, and everything else that occurs within them, and in externally-observable stuff, occurs solely as by-products of the degree to which TD E/I-minimization is, in fact, achieved.
From NDT's perspective, the 'emotions' are 'just' more by-products of "supersystem" ["global"; AoK, Ap5] TD E/I-minimization.
I've not read any of Damasio's work, but, interpreting it with respect to articles that I've read in various popularizations such as this one in The New York Times, Damasio is 'looking at TD E/I-minimization' and calling an arbitrarily-defined 'portion' of it "emotion" which is somewhat analogous to 'looking at' an automobile's Thermodynamics and calling them "the car".
Better metaphors are calling the color of a car's paint "the car" - or calling the dents that reflect accidents the automobile has been in, "the car" - or calling the systemic imbalances that derive in parts failures [like a flat tire, a broken fanbeld, a worn out, or fallen-off, muffler, a smashed windshield, etc.], and which necessitate adjustments within driving procedures, "the car".
Just as none of these things is "the car", 'emotions' are not "the nervous system".
What's been referred to as 'the emotions' are 'just' more communicative-interface stuff that assists in the overall goal of 'knowing' physical reality - of 'climbing' WDB2T - primarily by instantiating communicative dynamics that transcend verbal-'language'-interface-encoding of information-content [the "groanings of the spirit"]. When 'emotions' get in the way of the 'knowing' of physical reality, nervous systems 'just' 'tune them out' because they've become just more extraneous TD E/I(up) stuff that the TD E/I-minimization mechanisms 'eliminate' because doing so correlates to the overall goal of achieving TD E/I-minimization - of 'climbing' the WDB2T energy-gradient.
Anything that can be 'tuned-out' in this way can only be of relatively-superficial significance - so what ever it is is not "the nervous system", nor anything primary within the nervous system.
When I 'smile', those around me can 'sense' my 'Joy'. When I 'frown', those around me can 'sense' my 'Sorrow'. Etc., with respect to anything 'emotive'. The 'emotions' are 'just' this communications stuff - 'just' another 'language' interface.
Yes, as in the "infant's crying behavior" example of AoK, Ap5, and the "inward spiral" dynamics examples of AoK, Ap8, 'emotionality' can induce behaviors on the parts of others, but how is such 'different' from verbal-'language'-interface stuff? Only in the symbolism that's manifest via the interface non-verbal-symbolic or verbal-symbolic.
What about the 'feeling' inherent in 'emotion'?
'feeling' is just the internally-relevant facade that's on-top-of the underpinning TD E/I(up\down) energydynamics for the purpose of imposing a universally-interpretable 'face' upon the underpinning energydynamics. Such allows one to 'know' the 'state' of one's TD E/I-minimization energydynamics, and their degrees of correlation with respect to the 'climbing' of the energy-gradient that is WDB2T, without comprehending the specifics of the underpinningTD E/I-minimization functionality.
That 'emotion' is easily diverted, and often misdirected, makes it obvious that 'emotion' is superficial to wide-scope WDB2T - that is, 'emotion'-this, or 'emotion'-that, take steps to 'move' in another 'direction' and the different WDB2T energy-gradient in the 'new location' that's been 'moved toward' render the former 'emotion' superfluous.
Such just wouldn't happen if 'emotion' was, as Damasio claims, a 'determining' thing.
It's not. It's just another 'language' interface, built on top of TD E/I-minimization.
Get it? KPC
As I've discussed in the past, everything that's been considered to constitute "emotion" is 'just' another by-produce of TD E/I-minimization - 'just' another 'language' interface whose underpinning energydynamics are 'just' TD E/I-minimization, which is the abstract 'language' to which everything within nervous systems reduces so that nervous systems and their functioning are rigorously coupled to external WDB2T.
The article speaks of nervous systems ~"existing to serve the body" [or something like that], but that's not it.
The actual case is that =everything= within an organism's relationship to physical reality exists for the sole purpose of 'climbing' the one-way flow of energy from order to disorder that is what's described by 2nd Thermo [WDB2T]. Everything within biological systems co-operates with respect to such.
The various organs that comprise the body, including the nervous system, co-operate with respect to such.
There's no 'separating' anything that's in the physical reality that's in-there from the single 'goal' of 'climbing' WDB2T - functionality becomes integrated within biological systems be-cause it does, and to the degree that it does, enable a biological system to 'climb' the energy-gradient that is WDB2T.
Well, i guess one can separate one's self from one's "appendix", but such 'exceptions' to the 'rule' [reiterated immediately above] only substantiate the 'rule' :-]
Any attempt to 'isolate' by-product stuff and call it the 'determining' thing is Non-Sensical B.S.
There is a Determining thing. It is WDB2T.
Within nervous systems, TD E/I-minimization is the anti-correlated 'reflection' of WDB2T. TD E/I-minimization works against WDB2T, which enables 'climbing' of the WDB2T energy-gradient. [As is pointed out in AoK, TD E/I-minimization can be further reduced to WDB2T itself.]
From the few articles I've read, it's long seemed to me that what Damasio is actually doing is 'just' 'borrowing' and 'reinterpreting' TD E/I-minimization by putting a 'contorting' 'language' interface upon it. Which, to me, is Disgusting because doing so inherently Misleads with respect to Truth inherent in nervous system energydynamics.
The 'borrowing' I can take on the chin. The Misleading, I cannot.
K. P. Collins
"P. S. ..."
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