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Reversal potential/Equilibrium potential Definitions! (should be easy for you guys)

KP-PC k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net%remove%
Tue Apr 29 19:54:29 EST 2003


Get it?

The meter's "zero" is actually a =variable= be-cause it's actual
value can only be calculated relative to the "biological mass" that's
constructed during activation-dependent trophic dynamics.

'Skip' this 'calculation' and all of Learning is 'disregarded' for
the sake of 'seeing' that 'the meter reads zero'.

The meter doesn't.

Learning happens :-]

'Disregard' such, and one is no longer studying nervous systems [only
conveniently-TD E/I-minimized stuff of one's own mental-manufacture
[of one's imaginings].

[I mean no offense. I mean just-the-opposite stuff.]

K. P. Collins

--
"Schmitd! Schmitd! Ve vill build a Shapel!"

"KP-PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net%remove%> wrote in message
news:nzEra.57976$cO3.3924508 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Hi New Zelander,
|
[...]
| "BilZ0r" <BilZ0r at TAKETHISOUThotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:Xns936DDD66A39BBilZ0rhotmailcom at 202.20.93.13...
| | "KP-PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net%remove%> wrote in
| news:G4ura.130481
| | $ja4.5722746 at bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
| |
| | > My position is not yet accepted by others, but here it is:
| | >
| | > "reversal potential" just the 'sweet spot' around which ionic
| | > conductances 'hover', and can, itself, vary, absolutely, as a
| | > function of the net ionic 'state' which varies in a complex
| fashion
| | > right down to microscopic 'levels'.
| | >
| |
| | I would have thought you would have brought up the 2nd law by
now!
| This is
| | a time where its actaully applicable. Seeing that its really all
| about
| | equilibrium.
|
| First, I don't talk about 2nd Thermo. I talk about the energy-flow
| that is what's [inadequately] described by 2nd Thermo.
|
| 2nd, there's actually no "equilibrium" in-there. It's not trivial
to
| see such, but everything's =continuously= varying, including what's
| referred to as the "reversal potential".
|
| To see this, one has to step pack a bit, to view the 'big picture'.
|
| An analogy helps. Consider the lillies of the firld whach have just
| popped through the surface of the earth [a couple of days ago where
I
| live [New England, but about 6 months ago where you live :-]. The
| sprouts srpout, their photosynthesis capacities augment as their
| surface areas augment, so their internal energy supplies agument,
| until they've enough 'excess' energy to be extravagant, and they
| blossom [with sweet fragrance that I Love], if they're lucky, the
| bees are busy, and they get polenated, bearing the 'fruits' of
their
| labors in the seeds of yet another generation's cycling. They hang
on
| into the summer, wither and 'die'.
|
| My 'point' in all of this is, where is anything that's in
| "equilibrium"?
|
| Where is anything that can be referred to as an "absolute set
point"?
|
| None and none. 'quantum mechanics' not withstanding, everything
| in-there is 'just' a continuous energy-flow.
|
| The analogous thing is True eithin nervous systems because
| microscopic trophic modifications ["biological mass"] occur in a
way
| that's rigorously-coupled to the neural activation that actually
| occurs amongst neurons.
|
| Our nervous systems are like the lillies in this way.
|
| The main 'point' is that, yeah, one can stick an elecrode in a
| neuron, connect it to a meter, and observe that the meter
| periodically crosses it's "zero", but such is devoid of anything
but
| the most-extremely-trivial 'meaning' - because the neuron is
| continuously adapting its neural architecture with respect to the
| activation that it experiences [and, in vivo, it's terrifically
| moreso because group-discipline amongst globally-integrated
| 'mechanisms', including glial function, act upon the neuron's
| energydynamics [see all of AoK].
|
| As I've discussed in other posts, the net result tends strongly to
be
| [or at least can be] continuous 'motion' with respect to [and,
| hopefully, with net 'climbing' of] the energy-gradient that is
WDB2T.
|
| So, there's actually nothing in-there that constitutes a
"zero"-able
| "reversal potential".
|
| Yes, the meter does 'read' "zero" somewhat periodically, byt why
| glorify a meter's reading when, given trophic dynamics, what's
| actually happening is nerver the same twice?
|
| Doing so is akin to one calling the ground upon which one stands
'the
| center of the universe' - it's not. It's just another place within
| the universe - tied to everything else within the universe via the
| one-way flow of energy from order to disorder that is WDB2T.
|
| Saying the "reveraal potential" 'is always zero' is like saying a
| popsicle is always at zero degrees centigrade if the freezer it's
in
| is set at zero degrees centigrade.
|
| "Yeah, but, so what?"
|
| Everything that's going on in-there is 'just' being 'overlooked' in
| order to take note of the meter's reading.
|
| Calling something "special" doesn't make it "special".
|
| Don't get me wrong, It's OK to take note of the "reversal
potential",
| but only with regard to everything else that's going on in-there.
| When this's done, it's seen that the "reversal potential" is just
| another 'point' in the overall energy-flow - same as any other
| 'point' within the overall energy-flow - not anything "special".
|
| What I've discussed in this msg is some of why in vitro experiments
| are 'dangerous' - they can easily 'blind' folks to the big
picture -
| render the 'forest' un-see-able.
|
| 'Deny' the existence of the 'forest' just to sustain the
| 'specialness' of the no-special-ness called "special" because
"that's
| what the meter says"?
|
| Nope.
|
| The meter lies [or, at least, 'withholds' Truth :-]
|
| Main point: Despite the meter's reading "zero", the "zero" it reads
| is never the same thing twice.
|
| Course, folks can make it look 'otherwise', in vitro, but that
| doesn't make it otherwise in vivo.
|
| [I'm not trying to be a "smart-alec". It's just hard for me to go
| over the same-stuff never-endingly [I've discussed all of what's
| here, repeatedly, in the past], so I look for new ways to say the
| same stuff - and that comes out "smart-alec-y" - all I'm doing is
| doing what needs to be done in ways that keep my Being from
| 'dis-integrating' from the "boredom" [AoK, Ap5, 7 & 8].
|
| The meta-main-'point' is that there's real worth in understanding
| nervous system function in a globally-integrated way. NDT was
| developed to fill this need.
|
| It's why folks sending both it and me down 'the Waste shute'
'hurts'
| so much, and,  simultaneously, so 'hilarious'.]
|
| Neural tissue undergoes thophy as a result of activation that
occurs
| within it. There's nothing in-there that can be pointed to as being
| 'disconnected' from these trophic dynamics - everything is always
| changing, despite the meter's False reporting :-]
|
| The trophic dynamics constitute the 'thing' of greatest importance
| with respect to 'climbing' WDB2T, which is what everything within
| nervous systems [within all of Life] do [does].
|
| It's unacceptable to not =See= this just so one can 'be on friendly
| terms' with 'the meter'.
|
| ken [K. P. Collins]
|
|





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