Deities cannot exist because of their consciousness

Alan Wostenberg awostenbergNospam at
Mon Dec 8 10:42:09 EST 2003

Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
    > On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 10:51:29 -0600, Alan Wostenberg wrote:
    >>So we agree a Supernatural being could use a pulsar as His mouthpiece,
    >>or ano other physical system? Not sure your point here, Wolf.
    > 1) Regardless of how a supernatural G manifests itself or
communicates with
    > humans, it must always be in terms and by means that humans
understand. 2) Hence
    > G will appear as natural, not supernatural. 3. Hence we can prove
nothing one
    > way or the other about a supernatural G.

I agree with your first statement. The second doesn't follow and is 
refuted by Dembski's example {1}

And Wolf, whenever somebody tells me what we can't know about the 
unknown, I remember GK Chesterton's quip "we don't enough about the 
unknown to say it's unknowable". ;-)

    > IIRC, it was Augustine who pointed out that all talk about G is
metaphor - we
    > can never say "G is such and such", we can only say "It is as if G
were such
    > and such." Or words to that effect. But if that's all we can say, we
    > prove anything one way of the other - because someone else can
always say
    > "Ah, yes, but it's as if G were so and so." And even if "such and 
    > contradicted "so and so", we couldn't draw any conclusions from that
    > for the reality they both allegedly refer to could be perfectly
consistent in
    > its own terms while appearing as inconsistent in our terms.

While it's true the Saint works in the great tradition the analogy of 
being{2} I think that he who wrote in his _Confessions_

"You, O Lord,  created heaven and earth. They are beautiful becaues You
are beautiful. They are good becaues You are goodness. They exist becaue
You are existence.

However they are not as beautiful or as good as You, nor do they have 
existence as You their creator have it. Compared with You they are 
neither beautiful, nor good, nor do they exist"

might be surprised at your exegis of his text!

-- Alan Wostenberg
Sing of Mary.

{2} When we predicate terms of Creator and creatures we don't mean them 
univocally (exactly same meaning), nor equivocally (totally different 
meanings), but analogically (partly same, partly different) --

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