Deities cannot exist because of their consciousness
keithj43 at yahoo.com
Sat Dec 27 21:26:01 EST 2003
"Wolf Kirchmeir" <wwolfkir at sympatico.can> wrote in message news:<jbysxveflzcngvpbpna.hqkb8p2.pminews at news1.sympatico.ca>...
> On 26 Dec 2003 19:38:03 -0800, keith wrote:
> >I don't agree that this would make God's existence logically
> >indeterminant. However, if the reasons they (allegedly) know that God
> >exists turn out to be wrong then the fact is they *don't* know that
> >God exists.
> "Contingent" means "dependent on one or more other factors." This meaning
> implies "It could have been other than it is" as _one_ of its consequences
> (ie, when the contingency is material.)
> If people want to "prove" that god exists, they are making god's existence
> dependent on one or more other factors,...
I would not agree. They are simply noting that the conclusion "God
exists" follows from some premises, and if they know the premises are
true then they can extend this knowledge by argument. They would then
know God exists. It would their knowledge that God exists that would
be contingent on other factors.
> which means that logically gods'
> existence can't be absolute in their scheme of things. Since everyone that's
> ever offered me a "proof" of god's existence also claims that god is absolute
> in all sorts of ways, their theology is logically inconsistent.
Please explain what you mean by 'absolute' existence (as opposed to
> The fact that
> they don't see this puzzles me, especially in light of the fact that they
> insist on a "logical proof" of god's existence -- they put "logic" very high
> in their scale of values, and would would think they would be disturbed by
> the logic of their own arguments. For that matter, I don't understand the
> need to "prove" god's existence at all - if I understand Kierkegaard
> correctly, such a need implies a lack of faith. So how can people who claim
> to have faith want to prove the existence of god?
I wouldn't agree that the need to prove God's existence implies a lack
of faith in the Christian sense. Faith is more than just 'knowledge of
what's true'. In the epistle of james, the auhtor wrote that even the
demons possess that kind of Knowledge. Faith in Christianity means
trust, as in trusting your own soul to Christ.
> Many of the comments I've snipped actually agree with my p.o.v, so I don't
> understand why you make them. You seem to believe you are refuting something
> or other.
I don't see that I agree with you, so one of us is misunderstanding
the other. But I am enjoying trying to figure each other out.
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