Reprogramming

J Zijlstra jw53z at xs4all.nl
Wed Jun 25 09:37:56 EST 2003


On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:51:12 -0400, r norman <rsnorman_ at _comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:02:51 +0200, J Zijlstra <jw53z at xs4all.nl>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:29:42 -0400, r norman <rsnorman_ at _comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:04:36 +0200, J Zijlstra <jw53z at xs4all.nl>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello,
>>>>
>>>>I'm sure someone has posted something on this before but I didn't find
>>>>it. 
>>>>
>>>>After reading
>>>>http://www.rand.org/publications/randreview/issues/rr.12.00/rrfall2000.pdf
>>>>
>>>>I couldn't get that question out of my mind. They stated the
>>>>following,  
>>>>
>>>>Whatever the initial reason for
>>>>using drugs, the vast majority of
>>>>people addicted to drugs cannot
>>>>stop. “The reason for this is that
>>>>prolonged drug use changes the
>>>>brain in fundamental and longlasting
>>>>ways. In some sense, the
>>>>brain is actually rewired as a function
>>>>of drug use.” (page 4)
>>>>
>>>>So are drugs users able to mentally change in a positive way (Talking
>>>>about the tiny few instead of encouraging..)
>>>>
>>>>If this is true and I think that could be confirmed after 3 years of
>>>>research. Am I then able to say that we are able to 'rewire' our brain
>>>>in a positive sence?
>>>>
>>>
>>>The "wiring" of the brain is the pattern of synaptic connections
>>>between neurons.  This includes both the microanatomy of which
>>>specific neurons connect to which specific others and also to the
>>>details like the strength of each synaptic connection, although some
>>>people may interpret the notion of wiring to include only the
>>>connections, not the strengths.
>>So I'm right that I say I can influence the neural process?
>>
>>>
>>>The specific web page you cite (the site you cite?) is almost three
>>>years old and refers to the well known phenomenon of "upregulation"
>>>and "downregulation" in the cell signaling machinery.  In this case,
>>>it refers to changes in synaptic strength, not to actually changes in
>>>connectivity.
>>Yes, but when I influence the upregulation and downregulation
>>(dopamine right? (Not really into it..))  I totally influence the
>>function of that part of the brain... The only difference I see in the
>>different parts of the brain are the way of communicating in small
>>scale..
>>
>>>
>>>These connections have always been known to be quite plastic
>>>(changeable).  We "rewire" our brain with every experience, every time
>>>we learn something. Neurons are dynamic, living cells.  In other
>>>words, there is nothing magical or special or rewiring the brain.
>>>
>>I don't believe that, because if your influencing the communication
>>process you do rewire the brain right? And if your psychologically
>>changed your changed right? Isn't that a total change of the neural
>>processes?
>>
>>
>>>The real purpose of using a phrase like that is to indicate to people
>>>that the effects of drugs can far outlast the duration that the
>>>chemical actually remains in the body. If you are really straining to
>>>find someone who will tell you that abusing psychoactive drugs will
>>>rewire your brain to make you a better, wiser, and more caring
>>>individual, then you are indeed delusional.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Yes but it was just a source of inspiration I do understand the way it
>>is written trough, thanks.. But if I'm right, there should be a method
>>that allows your brain to psychologically change faster? And so giving
>>us the advantage of (ethically right or wrong) Rewire ourselfs... 
>>
>>I'm just having some clue's and probably AM missing some big facts but
>>I should be right somewhere...
>


>I think you are missing the point.  The brain is, in your sense,
>constantly rewiring itself.  As I said before, every experience, every
>memory, everything we learn is manifested in some form of change in
>the biophysical and biochemical structure and function of the brain.
>If you want to call this "rewiring", then feel free -- it is certainly
>some sort of change in the brain. 
Ok I agree with that

>
>The problem is that we don't control just how and where and which
>specific changes will occur. 
Well, freud did a good job...

>Reading, learning, thinking long and hard
>about things, behaving -- all these rewire our brain. Drugs may change
>the way that particular plastic changes happen, but there is no way
>that we can even imagine finding a drug that will magically rewire
>things in the "right" way. 
2 things then A new question we have,

Aren't there any drugs that will lets say make your brain (Cruelly
speaking) like super conductors better able to change/adapt or
whatever? 

And how is this process going to happen? Do we need to read a specific
kind of book that will stimulate us in a way of thinking? Oh And avoid
some situations..
>
>People studying human behavior for all have known for all of recorded
>history that our experiences and our learning change the way we
>behave.  In all those thousands of years, we still don't know how to
>do it "right". Chemistry isn't going to solve the problem.
>
Well thats also a bit of empirism haha, I think you'll need good
calculation power... And not everything should come to you posterori
right? But thats another discussion



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