neuroscience I/V plots and the K+ reversal potential

KP-PC k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net%remove%
Wed Mar 26 01:24:07 EST 2003


"KP-PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net%remove%> wrote in message
news:03Xfa.48069$S%3.1668626 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
|
| "KP-PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net%remove%> wrote in message
| news:8Nwfa.26467$S%3.1533494 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| | Oh yeah - the 'gates', themselves perform [alter their
| | 'conformations'] in accord with their local ionic concentrations
| | [this's where the "3-D energydynamics" stuff got it's start with
| | respect to biological considerations, BTW, back in the mid-1970s
[I
| | recognized its stuff because of work I 'd done in my Physics
| 'hobby'
| | [if it matters]]
|
| This's also one 'point' at which my work in developing NDT fad
right
| back into the stuff of my Physics 'hobby'.
|
| I saw that everything within the brain could be viewed as one
| exquisitely-ordered energy-flow, and that this energy-flow can be,
| literally, viewed in the form of ionic conductances [remember my
| long-former emphasis on "ionic conductances"? This's what I was
| talking about.
|
| I saw that, when 'learning' occurs, what actually happens is that
| "biological mass" [AoK, Ap5] is 'constructed' out of energy taken
| from the overall energy flow, and, subsequently, used to exert
| physical inertia within the overall energy flow, so as to direct
its
| flowing within the brain in formerly-non-existent ways.
|
| I saw, in this stuff that what brains do is act upon the
| freedom-to-move of the energy that flows within them, and coined
the
| term "ephemerence" [afterward given the new spelling,
"ephemerance",
| by a South African chap back in the days during which I was
| discussing NDT in CompuServe's "Science Forum"; the term
| "ephemerance" was coined from "ephemeral", as a reflection of the
| fleeting nature of the energydynamics inherent in the TD
| E/I-minimization dynamics that occur within our brains].
|
| Anyway, I saw that, since I'd rigorously coupled the stuff I'd
| learned about energy-flow within brains, which reduces to ionic
| conductances, to '2nd Thermo' [WDB2T], I started working the stuff
of
| my Physics 'hobby' along the same lines and,
'ZZZzzzwwwwiiiippppp!',
| the Physics just 'took-off', on the way to imploding to unity, just
| as the Neuroscience had.
|
| Back and forth, back and forth, the Neuroscience and the Physics
| 'symbiotically' assisted each other's development. [I owe some
credit
| to the 'heat' I received in the CompuServe "Science Forum" - NDT's
| stuff was attacked from the perspective of 'quantum mechanics', and
| that attack is what transformed my Physics 'hobby' into 'just'
| Physics. I gave my work in Physics the name, "Tapered Harmony" [to
| simultaneously reflect the centrality of the energy flow that is
| WDB2T, and non-particulate "matter" that's ordered within SSW<->UES
| harmonics [this, too, is all in AoK, although I only 'pointed' to
it
| in a footnote discussing the "nonlinearity of perspective" in AoK,
| Ap6 [the footnote in which I discuss almost running into a pole
while
| writing in a notebook while out or an early morning walk; the sand
| sliding from the dump truck; the Children's hexagonal
| merry-go-round].

[to whoever it is who actually can read what I post:]

The Curcial 'moment' came when, after years of studying, modeling,
and theorizing with respect to the ionic conductances
[extremely-intense, back in the early to mid-1970s - in the full
robustness of my Youth, the fight for the understanding was
'no-hlods-barred, but extremely-'private' - it's when I 'died' to
'normal' Living - there just was not 'time' enough for both 'Living'
and the Science, so, 'kickin' and fussin' because 'dying' is
'hard-to-do-stuff', I 'held-on' and Chose to do the Science [I know
this sounds 'flowery', and 'self-agrandizing', but no one other than
me can even begin to imagine the 'intensity' of it - and, for me,
ever since, it's all been right-there, in my full Knowledge with
respect to it - I Embrace it, and gain strength to continue because,
in it, I Learned 'who I am' - I'm disclosing the attendant
'intensity' because, if anyone wants to comprehend the stuff that
I'll discuss in the rest of this update, they'll have to go through
some of the same-stuff - it ain't a 'cake-walk' - expecially because
it's yet more stuff that rewrites stuff that's long been accepted as
having been 'beaten-into-submission-'reified', but actually wasn't].

Anyway, the Crucial 'moment' encompassed these years [there exists no
such thing as 'time'], during which my nervous system follkwed the
"curved path to understanding", 'bending' itself to the problem.

It was the 'time' during which I developed the neural glia hypothesis
that's briefly discussed in AoK, Ap5. I was working on the "memory"
problem. My focus converged upon the ionic conductances, and I saw,
in them, that ionic 'charge' occurs as a macroscopic 'field' that
rigorously, but extremely-dynamically, conforms to the neural
topology.

When one loks-into such, however, although one can distinguish the
'bounding' features of the neural topology, one can discern no
'boundaries' within the collective action that is the ionic 'charge'
distribution.

Rather, what one sees is that the neural topology conforms to the
'charge' distribution even as the 'charge' distribution conforms to
the neural Topology.

As I studied this problem, I saw that the 'charge' distribution
inherent in the ionic conductances conforms, everywhere, to a
principle that's =eaxctly= the same-stuff as that which I've
discussed as "SSW<->UES harmonics" in former posts.

That is, there's an "energy-surround" in which the
information-processing 'force' inherent in the ionic conductances is
'centrally'-located within the 'energy-surround'.

I saw that, through the metabolic 'chain', the ionic 'force' conforms
rigorously to the one-way flow of energy from order to disorder that
is what's =described= by 2nd Thermo [WDB2T].

And it 'Clicked'.

I saw that prevailing conceptualizations in Physics were False, and
that Physics had to be reworked to give central-precedence to WDB2T
within an energy-surround.

I saw that, within the neural Topology, evolutionary dynamics had
'written' a tutorial in Physics that's just plain-to-see.

The thing that =requires= such is that 'charge'-distribution is
=continuous=.

Anyway, this's the 'bifurcation point' between the work I've done and
the 'traditional' approaches to the same stuff.

I went back, and rewrote all of Physics, testing everything via the
proven experimental results in Physics.

I know of no experimental result in Physics that is not already
integrated [challenges welcome, and invited].

That's why I can say, with Certainty, that folks do not have to do it
as I've done it, but no matter how they do it, they'll, necessarily,
end up having substantiated one thing - NDT.

This's why I'm Obligated to do the work inherent in bringing NDT's
stuff forward.

It's Truth upon the coming-forward of which the Survival of Humanity
depends.

K. P. Collins

| Then, Chemistry just began imploding to unity along the same
lines -
| 3-D energydynamics which occur in rigorous accord with WDB2T.
|
| I recall my thought in the midst of all of this: "I looked in the
| brain, and saw the universe."
|
| In terms of the 3-D energydynamics, it's literally True. Brains
| 'emulate' physical reality, while incorporating physical reality
| through their being 'engineered' with rigorous respect to the
single
| task of climbing the WDB2T energy-gradient.
|
| Back and forth, back and forth - I rewrote all of Science with the
| brain, as it's stuff is disclosed within NDT's synthesis of the
| hard-won experimental results within all of Science, as my
'teacher',
| with the Neuroscience experimental results being the 'seed crystal'
| in what, during my years of playing with Physics as a 'hobby' being
| the 'supersaturated solution'.
|
| I want only to share all of this stuff, but will not be able to if
I
| cannot feed and shelter myself.
|
| Hence, my 'whining'.
|
| It's a Lover's 'quarrel'.
|
| I did it for Love of 'you'.
|
| Now, stop 'pouting', and let's do Science together :-]
|
| ken [K. P. Collins]
|
| | ken
| |
| | "KP-PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net%remove%> wrote in message
| |
news:Fuwfa.26448$S%3.1530447 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| | | The way I see it is that it's due to 'resting' background ionic
| | | concentrations being maintained homeostatically - because it's
| so,
| | | just so much variance can happen due to =any= 'pump' or gating
| | | 'event' - because the ionic dynamics 'want' to be at their
| | | 'set-points', overall - so a gating 'event' greates an ionic
| | 'force'
| | | that 'upsets the homeostasis teakettle', and the homeostasis
| | becoming
| | | locally-imbalanced 'reacts' with an opposing ionic 'force'
that's
| | | proportional to the divergence from homeostasis due to the
gating
| | | 'event' - this reaction ionic 'force' reverses the gate's
| | | flow-potential [and the actual ionic flow within it].
| | |
| | | This way enables extraordinarily-powerful overall integration
| | that's
| | | at a 'deeper level' than, for instance, synaptic dynamics.
| | [includes
| | | all of the neural glia considerations that are briefly
addressed
| in
| | | AoK and which I've discussed in long-former posts here in b.n.]
| | |
| | | This can be tested by playing with background ionic
| concentrations
| | | in-vitro.
| | |
| | | Cheers, Chrissy, ken
| | |
| | | |"chrissy" <chrismin at bigpond.com> wrote in message
| | | news:5fe998a3.0303232039.4d88fb39 at posting.google.com...
| | | | I was recently looking at an I/V plot for K+ current in a
| neuron,
| | | and
| | | | the plot was a straight line with an x-intercept (zero
current)
| | at
| | | | about -45mV.  I was told the K+ reversal potential is
| | about -80mV,
| | | so
| | | | I assumed the voltage-gated K+ channel stopped current flow
at
| | that
| | | | point, but I don't know enough about the properties of the K+
| | | channel
| | | | to be sure about that.  The K+ concentration inside and
outside
| | the
| | | | cell was what a normal neuron would have.
| | | | Was I wrong about the reason the K+ current stopped?  It
sounds
| | | like
| | | | there's a better reason, but I don't know it...
| | |
| | |
| |
| |
|
|





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