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Ephedrine Neurotoxicity

Mark Probert markprobert at lumbercartel.com
Tue May 27 15:56:00 EST 2003

John H. wrote:
> However, keep in mind that IF ADHD is about loss of dopamine volume in the
> synaptic cleft (studies by Volkow on Ritalin impact on DAT tend to suggest
> this), then the toxicity would not be a problem because it is the MAO
> degradation of Da that creates the toxic quinones. IF in ADHD this is the
> problem, then the drug is simply restoring synaptic Da to functional levels,
> rather than creating dangerous excesses that occur with amphetamine abuse.
> Also, if toxicity is occurring then the long term administration would be
> leaving disastrous results that could not be hidden, not even by the most
> aggressive drug company.
> Having said that, personally I still have reservations about the current
> treatment or more pertinently diagnosis of ADHD. Eg. Recently a friend of
> mine took her daughter to a pediatrician who advised (after 5 bloody minutes
> the arrogant shithead) that her daughter has ADHD. 

Generalization from one occurrence is never a good idea.

The Surgeon Genral's 1999 or 2000 report on psychaitric problems 
addressed the over/under diagnosis issue, and it cam edown on the side 
of underdiagnosis. There is ample evidence that incorrect diagnosis is 
occurring, but, when I took a look at the ADHD-diagnosis picture from a 
broad point of view over more than a decade, I came to the conclusion 
that there is substantial undrdiagnosis, especially of younger ADD 
girls. I recall recent studies which back this up.

This beautiful kid is
> more sane and stable than many adults I know! Here in Aus, the West
> Australian government commissioned a large study on parent training in
> helping ADHD children and cognitive therapy for the kids. The results showed
> marked reduction in drug requirements. Now that's me on my high horse, I
> really have a problem with this current trend towards prescribing "problem"
> children with psychoactive drugs.
> By the way, even chronic stress with reduce DAT activity.
> Parkinson's. Yes, must lose many cells but subtle testing can reveal that
> even in the relatives of some Parkinson's patients (and schizophrenics) one
> can detect slight cognitive changes leaning in the same direction. There
> probably is no ideal level here, more a matter of balance between various
> elements. As such, raw comparisons against a base line re one agent can be
> very misleading. I think, who bloody knows. This stuff is too bloody hard.
> Just for once, I wish I could say, "It's really quite straightforward!"
> John H.
> "BilZ0r" <BilZ0r at TAKETHISOUThotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9387A73E786D6BilZ0rhotmailcom at
>>anon <anon at no.com> wrote in news:BAF6F73D.5FB%anon at no.com:
>>>Does this neurotoxicity occur at doses used to treat ADHD?
>>Possibly (Probably in my opinion though). Neurotoxicity can be seen at
>>2mg/kg in babbons, so thats the equivalant of a 70mg dose in a human
>>The average does (I believe, Im not a pharmacist) for ADHD is around 30mg
>>of methamphetamine. So I don't know whether a 30mg dose can creat
>>neurotoxicity. They didn't try giving the babbons anything lower than
>>2mg/kg but im guessing they would have found much smaller doses to be
>>Whether this neurotoxicity has any behaviour consequence is another
>>story. The babbon study showed a ~40% reduction in dopamine transport
>>protein after the 2mg/kg dose, but what is it, you have to have a 75%
>>reduction in dopaminergic cell bodys before the symptomes of parkinson
>>are visable...

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