monkeys learn to use brain-machine interface
k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net
Wed Oct 15 09:57:35 EST 2003
"BilZ0r" <BilZ0r at TAKETHISOUThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns941565940412BBilZ0rhotmailcom at 126.96.36.199...
| You're not aware of a very common bit
| of neural network jargon,
Nope - local WDB2T doesn't 'dictate'
| yet you think you've explained
| And you wonder why no one takes you
Nope, I do not 'wonder'.
I only work, NL-P-ly, to give folks Reason.
Please don't 'buzz' me about my 'wise-ass'
reply. There's nothing in yours to which one
can reply Cogently, is there?
[I've already discussed local WDB2T diff-
erentials, and their ramifications within
Human interactive dynamics.]
| "KP_PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net> wrote in
| > Why does it matter?
| > Global integation of TD E/I-minimization
| > is what Unifies Consciousness.
| > A typo is fixed below.
| > k. p. collins
| > "KP_PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:buTib.178086$0v4.13692702 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| >| "BilZ0r" <BilZ0r at TAKETHISOUThotmail.com> wrote in message
| >| news:Xns94148DDA6D76ABilZ0rhotmailcom at 188.8.131.52...
| >| | No neccassarily Ken, Its possible that the
| >| | nuerons could control both the
| >| | implant and whatever task they
| >| | had before. At least with my
| >| | understanding of current Neural
| >| | network stuff dealing with
| >| | Catastrophic Forgetting.
| >| I'm not familiar with any work that's
| >| referred to as "Catostophic Forgetting"
| >| [or are you 'buzzing' me with respect
| >| to the fact that I do not reiterate every-
| >| thing I've ever posted in every msg I
| >| post? :-], but the basics of the stuff you
| >| address are handled within the "super-
| >| system configuration" discussion of AoK,
| >| Ap5. See the rest of AoK [in particular,
| >| the rest of Ap5, Ap6 & Ap7] for higher-
| >| 'level' discussions of the same-stuff.
| >| The =specific= thing that I discussed
| >| in the post to which you've replied [and
| >| which is not included in what you've
| >| quoted below] is that the implant
| >| remains non-globally-integrated with
| >| respect to globally-integrated TD E/I-
| >| minimization dynamics that are innate
| >| within 'normal' nervous systems.
| >| This means that the implant's circuitry
| >| will constitute a non-TD E/I-minimizable
| >| 'dynamic' to the rest of the nervous
| >| system, and the nervous system's inform-
| >| ation-processing dynamics will, therefore,
| >| be 'attracted' to TD E/I-minimizing these
| >| non-TD E/I-minimizable dynamics - which
| >| is why the implant will Dictate to the nervous
| >| system in a way that transforms it into some-
| >| thing other than a [Human] Nervous System - which <<<
| >| is the wellspring of the information-proces-
| >| sing deficits that the implant will introduce,
| >| and which I wrote about in my prior post.
| >| It's =not= that a nervous system cannot
| >| alter itself with respect to the implant. It
| >| can, and will.
| >| It's that the implant cannot 'play-fair' with
| >| respect to =globally-integrated= TD E/I-
| >| minimization.
| >| The point is subtle, but Huge.
| >| I'd have to read the article - in order to
| >| analyze the external processing that the
| >| coupled hardware/software do - to be able
| >| to say more [and I've not been able to
| >| access it] , but, say, the Researchers
| >| have built an analogue of TD E/I-minimiza-
| >| tion into such external processing.
| >| That could have functionality that =is= Use-
| >| ful with respect to 'overcoming' prior Trauma
| >| to the nervous system.
| >| But it cannot replicate the nervous system's
| >| innate information-processing capacities, be-
| >| cause there's just no way to achieve the
| >| necessary global integration with respect to
| >| TD E/I-minimization. Attempts to achieve such
| >| would necessitate so much 'wiring' that they
| >| would kill the nervous system, and its host
| >| organism - and, unless, it were done via a
| >| transplant [an awesomely-fancy one] there'd
| >| still be no "functional multiplexing" [AoK, Ap9]
| >| in-there, and that stuff is necessary if globally-
| >| integrated TD E/I-minimization is to occur as
| >| it does within 'normal' [organically-intact]
| >| nervous systems.
| >| There's =HUGE= 'subtlty' in the energydynamics
| >| of nervous systems [of brains]. It's all in-there
| >| for information-processing reasons. To replicate
| >| nervous systems' information-processing
| >| dynamics, given the fact that such 'replication' is
| >| to occur 'within' a nervous system ['cyborg'-wise],
| >| it has to be done the way nervous systems do it.
| >| If the goal is an entirely-machine 'replication', the
| >| problem is entirely-different. A machine can model
| >| nervous system dynamics in a successive-approx-
| >| imation way in which global-integration of the
| >| machine's 'td e/i-minimization' analogue is also
| >| 'maintained' in a successive-approximation way.
| >| What =cannot= be done via 'machines'
| >| is to interface them with Living nervous systems
| >| in a globally-integrated-TD E/I-minimizing way -
| >| be-cause the demands of such not-in-accord-
| >| with-the-genetic-'blueprint' 'wiring' would kill
| >| the nervous system, and still not be anywhere
| >| near what's right-there in an organically-intact
| >| nervous system. [It would still lack the 'Coulomb
| >| force' DNA-RNA tuning capabilities that I've
| >| been discussing in other threads both recently,
| >| and in long-former posts ["3-D energydynamics"]
| >| Again, this's =not= to say that implants cannot
| >| partially-address deficits that derive in organic
| >| damage to a nervous system.
| >| I've explicitly discussed all of this stuff, repeatedly,
| >| in long-former posts. Perhaps you missed them?
| >| See, the thing is that nervous systems are Truly-
| >| Wonderous. There's just no going-in-there, muck-
| >| ing-about, and coming-out with 'enhanced' inform-
| >| ation-processing capabilities.
| >| The WP article, for instance, talked about weapons-
| >| system applications - giving G.I.'s implants that'd
| >| enable them to do this or that interfacing with
| >| weapons systems via 'thought'.
| >| I expect that's possible, but it'd come at the Cost
| >| of the G. I.'s being rendered incapable of achieving
| >| 'normal' Thought - which is "A Bridge Too Far", and
| >| all of the Consequences inherent.
| >| Such 'proposals' are, in fact, 'Hilarious'.
| >| Everything that those who 'propose' thusly can be
| >| accomplished by simply allowing NDT's under-
| >| standing to be generally-Communicated.
| >| Why 'slice-n-dice' when you can 'just' Understand,
| >| and achieve far-more-Worthy-of-our-Humanity
| >| Stuff while eliminating the 'rationale' for 'weapons
| >| systems'?
| >| Why alter nervous systems when you can 'just'
| >| Use them in accord with their innate informa-
| >| tion-processing Capabilities?
| >| All this said, I do Hope that the Researchers do
| >| not relent until they've become capable of assisting
| >| nervous-system-injured individuals.
| >| [With respect to the rest [going into 'normal'
| >| nervous systems], I Hope that folks'll at least
| >| meet with me, in-person, before they decide to
| >| Learn the Hard way about the stuff I've discussed
| >| in this and my prior posts addressing the same-
| >| stuff.]
| >| If I've not sufficiently-addressed what you have
| >| in-mind, then Please cut-to-the-chase, and
| >| explicitly state whatever it is that you want
| >| discussed and/or addressed.
| >| ken [k. p. collins]
| >| | "KP_PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net> wrote in
| >| | $0v4.13511734 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
| >| |
| >| | > Prior to the implant procedures, these
| >| | > neurons were doing something else.
| >| | >
| >| | > The implant has, literally, taken over
| >| | > control of the monkey's nervous system.
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