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monkeys learn to use brain-machine interface

KP_PC k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net
Thu Oct 16 07:24:37 EST 2003


"KP_PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:zfdjb.179931$0v4.13809561 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
|
| "BilZ0r" <BilZ0r at TAKETHISOUThotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:Xns941565940412BBilZ0rhotmailcom at 202.20.93.13...
| | You're not aware of a very common bit
| | of neural network jargon,
|
| Nope - local WDB2T doesn't 'dictate'
| to me.

Be-cause I "range-idely" while
"following Truth's One Map"/

My 'local'-WDB2T is routinely non-
local :-]

Not because I've some 'non-locality
receiver', but be-cause I just routinely
require myself to range-widely in my
explorations.

Anyone can do this, All that's required
is to elevate one's "volitional diminishing-
returns" threshold [AoK, Ap7] - which
'costs', some, in terms of information-
processing work, and in terms of one's
having to not just-'agree' with every-
thing that 'momentarily' occurs within
one's interactive dynamics. This presents
some additional 'Difficulty' be-cause folks
tend to 'move away from' one who doesn't
'kiss their butts' in the 'moment' of inter-
action :-]

"Oh well."

'Butt-kissing' only 'closes the door' to
ranging-widely during one's explorations -
and eliminates the possibility of following
Truth's One Map.

Wish folks in Washington, D. C. would
Learn this one thing. See, for instance:

"On Listening
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Published: October 16, 2003"

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/16/opinion/16FRIE.html

"`Above all,' Dean Brodhead told the
students, 'don't limit your associations
to people who agree with you. . . '. I
read that American political parties
are concluding that the old electoral
strategy of first playing to the core
adherents and true believers, then
reaching out to the independent or
unpersuaded, might now be passé,
and that parties will succeed best by
continuing to appeal to the party base.
This may be good politics, but I doubt
it's good for the quality of thought that
will result from politics. Who do we
suppose will be able to deal more
constructively with the challenges of
our time: people who have only ever
experienced preaching to the converted,
or people who tested their understanding
against the countervailing understandings
of others?"

Give me Leaders who Rejoice in ranging-
widely in their striving to Lead! [who refuse
to be Dictated-to by merely-local-WDB2T]

The 'Miracle' that allows Humans to do
such Exists right between our ears.

You know?

Why not use what's in-there to use?

kpc [k. p. collins]

|
| | yet you think you've explained
| | consciousness?
|
| Yup.
|
| | And you wonder why no one takes you
| | seriously.
|
| Nope, I do not 'wonder'.
|
| I only work, NL-P-ly, to give folks Reason.
|
| Please don't 'buzz' me about my 'wise-ass'
| reply. There's nothing in yours to which one
| can reply Cogently, is there?
|
| [I've already discussed local WDB2T diff-
| erentials, and their ramifications within
| Human interactive dynamics.]
|
| ken
|
| | "KP_PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net> wrote in
| news:UjVib.1013$Ec1.92917
| | @bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
| |
| | > Why does it matter?
| | >
| | > Global integation of TD E/I-minimization
| | > is what Unifies Consciousness.
| | >
| | > A typo is fixed below.
| | >
| | > k. p. collins
| | >
| | > "KP_PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
| | >
|
news:buTib.178086$0v4.13692702 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| | >| "BilZ0r" <BilZ0r at TAKETHISOUThotmail.com> wrote in message
| | >| news:Xns94148DDA6D76ABilZ0rhotmailcom at 202.20.93.13...
| | >| | No neccassarily Ken, Its possible that the
| | >| | nuerons could control both the
| | >| | implant and whatever task they
| | >| | had before. At least with my
| | >| | understanding of current Neural
| | >| | network stuff dealing with
| | >| | Catastrophic Forgetting.
| | >|
| | >| I'm not familiar with any work that's
| | >| referred to as "Catostophic Forgetting"
| | >| [or are you 'buzzing' me with respect
| | >| to the fact that I do not reiterate every-
| | >| thing I've ever posted in every msg I
| | >| post? :-], but the basics of the stuff you
| | >| address are handled within the "super-
| | >| system configuration" discussion of AoK,
| | >| Ap5. See the rest of AoK [in particular,
| | >| the rest of Ap5, Ap6 & Ap7] for higher-
| | >| 'level' discussions of the same-stuff.
| | >|
| | >| The =specific= thing that I discussed
| | >| in the post to which you've replied [and
| | >| which is not included in what you've
| | >| quoted below] is that the implant
| | >| remains non-globally-integrated with
| | >| respect to globally-integrated TD E/I-
| | >| minimization dynamics that are innate
| | >| within 'normal' nervous systems.
| | >|
| | >| This means that the implant's circuitry
| | >| will constitute a non-TD E/I-minimizable
| | >| 'dynamic' to the rest of the nervous
| | >| system, and the nervous system's inform-
| | >| ation-processing dynamics will, therefore,
| | >| be 'attracted' to TD E/I-minimizing these
| | >| non-TD E/I-minimizable dynamics - which
| | >| is why the implant will Dictate to the nervous
| | >| system in a way that transforms it into some-
| | >| thing other than a [Human] Nervous System - which <<<
| | >| is the wellspring of the information-proces-
| | >| sing deficits that the implant will introduce,
| | >| and which I wrote about in my prior post.
| | >|
| | >| It's =not= that a nervous system cannot
| | >| alter itself with respect to the implant. It
| | >| can, and will.
| | >|
| | >| It's that the implant cannot 'play-fair' with
| | >| respect to =globally-integrated= TD E/I-
| | >| minimization.
| | >|
| | >| The point is subtle, but Huge.
| | >|
| | >| I'd have to read the article - in order to
| | >| analyze the external processing that the
| | >| coupled hardware/software do - to be able
| | >| to say more [and I've not been able to
| | >| access it] , but, say, the Researchers
| | >| have built an analogue of TD E/I-minimiza-
| | >| tion into such external processing.
| | >|
| | >| That could have functionality that =is= Use-
| | >| ful with respect to 'overcoming' prior Trauma
| | >| to the nervous system.
| | >|
| | >| But it cannot replicate the nervous system's
| | >| innate information-processing capacities, be-
| | >| cause there's just no way to achieve the
| | >| necessary global integration with respect to
| | >| TD E/I-minimization. Attempts to achieve such
| | >| would necessitate so much 'wiring' that they
| | >| would kill the nervous system, and its host
| | >| organism - and, unless, it were done via a
| | >| transplant [an awesomely-fancy one] there'd
| | >| still be no "functional multiplexing" [AoK, Ap9]
| | >| in-there, and that stuff is necessary if globally-
| | >| integrated TD E/I-minimization is to occur as
| | >| it does within 'normal' [organically-intact]
| | >| nervous systems.
| | >|
| | >| There's =HUGE= 'subtlty' in the energydynamics
| | >| of nervous systems [of brains]. It's all in-there
| | >| for information-processing reasons. To replicate
| | >| nervous systems' information-processing
| | >| dynamics, given the fact that such 'replication' is
| | >| to occur 'within' a nervous system ['cyborg'-wise],
| | >| it has to be done the way nervous systems do it.
| | >|
| | >| If the goal is an entirely-machine 'replication', the
| | >| problem is entirely-different. A machine can model
| | >| nervous system dynamics in a successive-approx-
| | >| imation way in which global-integration of the
| | >| machine's 'td e/i-minimization' analogue is also
| | >| 'maintained' in a successive-approximation way.
| | >| What =cannot= be done via 'machines'
| | >| is to interface them with Living nervous systems
| | >| in a globally-integrated-TD E/I-minimizing way -
| | >| be-cause the demands of such not-in-accord-
| | >| with-the-genetic-'blueprint' 'wiring' would kill
| | >| the nervous system, and still not be anywhere
| | >| near what's right-there in an organically-intact
| | >| nervous system. [It would still lack the 'Coulomb
| | >| force' DNA-RNA tuning capabilities that I've
| | >| been discussing in other threads both recently,
| | >| and in long-former posts ["3-D energydynamics"]
| | >|
| | >| Again, this's =not= to say that implants cannot
| | >| partially-address deficits that derive in organic
| | >| damage to a nervous system.
| | >|
| | >| I've explicitly discussed all of this stuff, repeatedly,
| | >| in long-former posts. Perhaps you missed them?
| | >|
| | >| See, the thing is that nervous systems are Truly-
| | >| Wonderous. There's just no going-in-there, muck-
| | >| ing-about, and coming-out with 'enhanced' inform-
| | >| ation-processing capabilities.
| | >|
| | >| The WP article, for instance, talked about weapons-
| | >| system applications - giving G.I.'s implants that'd
| | >| enable them to do this or that interfacing with
| | >| weapons systems via 'thought'.
| | >|
| | >| I expect that's possible, but it'd come at the Cost
| | >| of the G. I.'s being rendered incapable of achieving
| | >| 'normal' Thought - which is "A Bridge Too Far", and
| | >| all of the Consequences inherent.
| | >|
| | >| Such 'proposals' are, in fact, 'Hilarious'.
| | >|
| | >| Everything that those who 'propose' thusly can be
| | >| accomplished by simply allowing NDT's under-
| | >| standing to be generally-Communicated.
| | >|
| | >| Why 'slice-n-dice' when you can 'just' Understand,
| | >| and achieve far-more-Worthy-of-our-Humanity
| | >| Stuff while eliminating the 'rationale' for 'weapons
| | >| systems'?
| | >|
| | >| Why alter nervous systems when you can 'just'
| | >| Use them in accord with their innate informa-
| | >| tion-processing Capabilities?
| | >|
| | >| All this said, I do Hope that the Researchers do
| | >| not relent until they've become capable of assisting
| | >| nervous-system-injured individuals.
| | >|
| | >| [With respect to the rest [going into 'normal'
| | >| nervous systems], I Hope that folks'll at least
| | >| meet with me, in-person, before they decide to
| | >| Learn the Hard way about the stuff I've discussed
| | >| in this and my prior posts addressing the same-
| | >| stuff.]
| | >|
| | >| If I've not sufficiently-addressed what you have
| | >| in-mind, then Please cut-to-the-chase, and
| | >| explicitly state whatever it is that you want
| | >| discussed and/or addressed.
| | >|
| | >| ken [k. p. collins]
| | >|
| | >| | "KP_PC" <k.p.collins at worldnet.att.net> wrote in
| news:t_wib.175626
| | >| | $0v4.13511734 at bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
| | >| |
| | >| | > Prior to the implant procedures, these
| | >| | > neurons were doing something else.
| | >| | >
| | >| | > The implant has, literally, taken over
| | >| | > control of the monkey's nervous system.
| | >|
| | >|
| | >
| | >
| | >
| |
|
|





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