Brain, Behaviour and Extensionalism
kpaulc at [remove]earthlink.net
Wed Apr 14 10:13:40 EST 2004
"JPL Verhey" <petervar at 12move.nl> wrote in message
news:407d1fdb$0$41750$5fc3050 at dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
> "Lester Zick" <lesterDELzick at worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:407ab55c.45010209 at netnews.att.net...
> > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:34:44 +1000, "Peter F."
> > <effectivespamblock at ozemail.com.au> in comp.ai.philosophy wrote:
> > >
> > >"Lester Zick" <lesterDELzick at worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > >news:4079c410.41628901 at netnews.att.net...
> > ><snip>
> > >> The problem is that material interactions
> > >> are certainly governed by quantum effects
> > >> and relations. We just don't know enough
> > >> to say whether mental interactions are
> > >> produced and governed by similar principles.
> > >> If they are governed by differential interac-
> > >> tions it is by no means clear that the mech-
> > >> anics involved need to be based on quantum
> > >> relations and effects even though interactions
> > >> of the substrate on which they are mechan-
> > >> ized obviously would.
> > >
> > >The only _reasonable_ (~non-religiously
> > >natural~) and most generally conclusive
> > >philosophical reasoning possible, is that
> > >consciousness (a complex multifaceted/
> > >multilevel/modular phenomenon of being
> > >and interacting as an *individual*) _do
> > >need_ (or fundamentally/essentially) the
> > >quantum aspect of What Is going on.
> > >
> > I definitely disagree that the mechanics of
> > intelligence or sentience are quantum.
> Hi Lester, can you explain what you mean
> with "quantum" and "quantum effects".
> As I understand it, "quantum effects" con-
> cern also (the effect of) quantum jumps.
> These quantum jumps are called unpred-
> ictable, uncontrolable and indivisible
> (btw..are they?) quantum transitions be-
> tween discrete orbits.The quantum of ac-
> tion is a major building block (If I may
> call it that) of all known matter. I don't
> know how many of such quantum jumps
> per second are taking place in the nerv-
> ous system.. but my guess is it will be
> astronomic. I predict that if you'd take
> out the quatum jump, aqa quatum of
> action.. intelligence (whatever that is) and
> sentience are non-existent.
> If the mechanics of intelligence or sent-
> ience are not quantum.. maybe they are
> not protonic..neutronic.. electromagnetic
These are all aggragate functions of con-
The "mechanics of intelligence or sentience"
are =not= 'quantum'.
> >The mechanics of intelligence have to
> > use material the mechanics of which
> > definitely are quantum mechanics
> What you mean by "using" ? All mech-
> anics are spatio-temporally related, on
> all levels we decide to distinguish.
That which has been referred to as "time"
has no physically-real existence.
All mechanics is 'just' 3-D energy-gradient.
What has been referred to as "time" is 'just'
energy's flowing down the one universal
energy-gradient, from order to disorder,
that is what's =described= by 2nd Thermo
> >but I have seen no clear rationale pre-
> >sented by anyone that the mechanics of
> >intelligence are just those of quantum
> I also have never seen anyone claiming
> that, in the "just" sense.
> >In other words if you expect to calculate
> >material interactions and functions of intel-
> >ligence on the same basis you may not
> >get correct answers for intelligence. At
> > least I don't know of anyone who can
> >calculate sentient processes in such a way
> >or even suggest why they have to be cal-
> >culatable according to common equations.
ratios calculate everything within physical
reality, all the way down.
Of course, to do this with respect to anything,
one must know the topologically-distributed
With respect to nervous systems, that's the
neural Topology - all the way down to the
level of "points" in 3-D space.
K. P. Collins
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