On Janov's view

kenneth collins kenneth.p.collins at worldnet.att.net
Wed Feb 2 19:28:03 EST 2005

Thank You for "hanging-in" in the face of
my =deliberately-focused= "pushiness",
Peter :-]

"Peter F - for EIMC Internetional Ptd. Lty." <fell_spamtrap_in at ozemail.com.au> wrote in message 
news:1X5Md.267$jY4.7668 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
| "kenneth collins" <kenneth.p.collins at worldnet.att.net> wrote in message 
news:Zj3Md.135991$w62.133053 at bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| <snip>
| > ||
| > || For example:
| > ||
| > || Janov's therapeutic and theoretical emphasis of
| > || the importance of allowing/facilitating new neural connections
| > || that very much in depth dispell the defensively misconnected gating reflexes
| > || that preserve/perpetuate CURSES.
| That was the main thing I wanted to put across to you.
| Then I was a bit sloppy with what I followed on with.

'sloppiness' is =just= interactive-Generosity
that Dares to expose mid-convergence TD
E/I-minimization "way-points".

Most folks "shy-away from" ['move away
from'] doing such out of "fear" of being
perceived, by others, as 'being sloppy'.

But there's =Great= Worth in actualizing
mid-convergence "way-points" -- be-cause
doing so drives one's nervous system
through "passive-active phase shifts" [AoK,
Ap5, Ap7], which literally instantiates in-
termediate-level "memory-consolidation",
thereby, allowing one to "walk-through
memory" in-detail, and, =Significantly=,
to maximize one's "memory"-bifurcation

In other words, mid-convergence "way-
pointing" renders "memory", increasingly
like a 3-D Solid, within which, such "den-
sity" literally enables a nervous system to
=See= Truth.

[Which is why I've routinely "paused" to
scribble my mid-convergence thoughts
into stacks of notebooks that I only rare-
ly refer back to. Taking the mid-converg-
ence notes "consolidates" the mid-con-
vergence "informational" correlates -- so
the stuff I scribbled in the notebooks be-
comes "biological mass" within my nerv-
ous system, there to be =used= in fur-
ther TD E/I-minimization. The act of
writing in a notebook is 'just' my way of
"pausing" to instantiate the underpinning
"passive-active phase shift", which in-
stantiates the formation of the "biolog-
ical mass" that enables my nervous sys-
tem to converge upon further TD E/I-
minimization, which enables me to do-
more within my external experiential

I'm discussing this stuff to =Teach=
it to the folks who read the stuff I
post -- be-cause I want to Give folks
the enhanced capabilities inherent.
[I'm =not= just "babbling" :-]]

Conversely, folks who "shy-away from"
mid-convergence "way-pointing" impose
upon themselves a "memory" circum-
stance that is only sparsely-"populated
and interconnected -- "Swiss-cheese
'memory'" -- which, subsequently, leaves
their nervous systems experiencing elev-
ated TD E/I with respect to anything that
correlates with a "memory void" [a "hole"
in "Swiss-cheese 'memory'"], which TD
E/I(up) feeds-forward into further in-
ducing their nervous systems to "shy-
away from" mid-convergence "way-

It's a viciously-cycling neural-activation

A =lot= of my posting style is deliber-
ately-focused upon lifting folks up out
of this vicious-cycling that's so Retarded
Humanity's Progress.

I'm "going first".

And you routinely "go first", for your
version of the same Reason, too, Peter.

We're alike in our "fear"-lessness with
respect to criticism from the perspective
of 'the way things are supposed to be'.

'Cause we know that we're just "climb-
ing the ladder" of understanding [which
I understand to Be a literal "climbing" of

More below.

| > || A certain Primal Pain (CURSES) is not just a
| > || kind of memory (or engram) of a lifetime situation that
| > || caused signals being sent by one (or more) - for "pain detection"
| > || specialized - neuron.
| > ||
| > || It also is -- in agreement with your view of your "TD E/I-up/down"
| > || brain functional and behaviour-organizing principle --
| > || an increase in different glutamatergic firing frequencies
| > || (e.g. caused by a lack of instinctively required
| > || type of sensory input - e.g., from an absence of physical touch in
| > || an person's first months and years of life) that
| > || at certain frequency-thresholds trigger not just
| > || the realease of pain correlated signal substances
| > || such as substance P, and that at long enough durations of such
| > || stimulation/firing (and/or given a sufficient inhibitory competition
| > || from other actention modules within the Actention Selection System)
| > || get to be counteracted by opioids and/or GABA-ergic lateral
| > ||inhibition (from the "competing" modules).
| > || [...]
| I got carried away with using my own
| terminology and interpretation after I mentioned
| Janov's emphasis on the importance of
| making "connections".
| What I did not take time to convey something
| about was the kind of new connections
| [connection from and to primal pain (or CURSES)]
| that Janov has found to be the most
| deeply self-regulatory.
| Here is a reattempt by me to communicate
| (partly in my own words) what I see as similarities of your descriptive scheme
| and Janov's Primal Theoretical/Therapeutic stance:
| An 'irritating situation' in the form of a non-primary but innate need
| (such as the need to be touched) being negated for a duration of, say,
| 2 days in the life of a 2 days old infant, would tend to give rise to only relatively low level
| of distress within the infant, and its paying of distressful actention to the situation by way of
| its "touch deprivation reflecting distress-expressing actention module" would
| be relatively easily masked or handled by an environmentally prompted
| focusing of actention (energizing to transiently dominant status) of an altogether different
| actention module than the "touch deprivation reflecting distress-expressing module";
| However, in cases when this deprivation is chronic (and/or when an only
| comparatively mildly abusive type of environmental influence occurs frequently throughout childhood)
| the kind of stressor in question [in either case definable as a SHITS (or ~ "trauma")]
| would give rise to a corresponding conditioned in state of very high "topologically distributed E/I-up",
| or (IOW) to a 'CURSES (alt. "Pain" or "engram") type memory with a very high
| and potentially dangerously perturbing "charge value".

Infants deprived of touch literally
"fail to thrive", and Die if it continues

There's a dramatic set of monkey exper-
iments that explored all of this. [I'm "tuned"
elsewhere just now, so I can't give the Ref.,
but I'll look it up if you're interested.]

| > Arthur Janov -- "Primal Therapy".
| >
| > As of what I'd encountered by 1977,
| > nothing indicates that Janov had cor-
| > related his position with anything like
| > what's in your paragraph immediately
| > above. He did comment upon drug-
| > abuse [LSD, Marijuana, and others].
| >
| > But the book I dug out of my "deep
| > freeze",
| Good intuitive expression.

That's my porch. It was so cold out-there
last 'night' that the bottom fell out of one
of my cheap plastic "milk-crate"-imita-
tion things :-]

| > which it turns out I've never
| > read, =The Primal Scream Primal
| > Therapy: The Cure For Neurosis=,
| > 1970, makes no mention of Neuro-
| > science -- which is how I'd remem-
| > bered it. [It must've either been dis-
| > cussed in a class I took, or I'd form-
| > erly flipped-through the book, and
| > put it on the shelf. I flipped-through
| > it tonight to search for Neuroscience
| > correlates, which was when I found
| > his comments on drug-abuse. That
| > stuff was "in-vogue" back then -- 
| > Timothy Leary, "flower children",
| > "hippies", Viet Nam War, etc.]
| >
| > Perhaps you were "suggesting" that
| > I'm 'neurotic'? :-]
| I have been at pains trying to communicate
| my insightful appreciation and terminology
| for how *I* and most other people function and behave,
| and now you thank me by suggesting I am suggesting
| you are *merely* neurotic! %-)

I've long been aware that folks tend
to "dismiss" 'me' in that way.

It happens be-cause folks tend to
'see me' in a "Swiss-cheesy" 'way',
which is why I want to meet with folks

| No, no, Ken! You are only 'intercEPTed' by, and in discussion
| with, me because of what you have written in this newsgroup;
| And because you - like me - have developed a, on
| 'neurobiology frequently focused' interest, or a ditto AEVASIVEly
| preoccupied style of coping with and living of your life - a style
| that in this respect is somewhat similar to mine.

Perhaps I misinterpret "AEVASIVE" as
connoting "evasive", which is 'just'-the-
opposite of how I see what I do.

Yes, there is a =lot= of stuff that I don't
discuss, but my overall "way" is a "run-
ning toward the fire", not "away from" it.

I'm Determined to do such on behalf of
the Children.

Are you emphasizing what's Obvious in
that? That I Obviously developed Empathy
for the Children be-cause of my own Child-
hood experience?

That's True, but my Empathy derives in
my Knowledge of how my Parents were
Brutalized in their Childhoods. It was
when I Realized what had befallen them
that the "Fire" to =End= all that's entalied
ignited within my Being.

And I've been "running toward that ex-
ternal conflagration", which consumes
Lives, ever since, all Benevolent-Fierce-

So I don't see that "AEVASIVE" applies
to me.

Yeah, I understand that folks don't under-
stand what I understand. So I "bat-down"
stuff that I Know to be irrelevant and/or
Wrong, and understand that my doing so
induces folks to 'think' this or that about
'me' -- but it's all be-cause I Know where
I'm "going", but can only "carry" folks' un-
derstanding to that "place" a little bit at
a 'time' -- be-cause of the way that "learn-
ing" occurs within nervous systems.

But there is an aspect of all of this that
might be correlated with your "AEVASIVE"

It's that, in my Adult Life, all others have
'seen of me' has been "overlayed" by the
fact that I was, then, working two jobs,
one paid, the other [doing NDT's stuff],
unpaid, and unexplained in the midst of
what folks 'saw' of 'me'.

So folks've 'presumed' this or that with
respect to 'me', and've told 'journalists',
etc., this or that 'about me' that's 'just'
False "finitizations" [AoK, Ap4] with
respect to =me=.

And such does constitute a Considerable-
Sorrow within my Being.

But, since no one will meet with =me=,
in-person, there hasn't been anything I
could do about such.

I understand that my Sorrow shows.

I just allow it to "stoke the fire" within,
and just continue to do what needs to
be done, rather than allowing "all that"
to Dictate to me what 'i must be'.

So, since you've broached the topic,
that's why I'm "Sensitive" to what
you've broached.

This is =NOT= a "criticism" of your
having broached it. In fact, I'm =Grate-
ful= to You that you did so -- be-cause
your doing so has Given me the context
in which I could Clarify stuff with respect
to folks' 'wondering' about 'me'.

So Thank You, Peter.

| <snip>
| > Folks who're "afraid" call that 'neur-
| > otic", be-cause doing so enables them
| > to achieve 'td e/i-minimization'.
| >
| > So, after Retracting a bit, I'll stand on
| > what I've posted with respect to Jan-
| > ov's view.
| I suggest you take breather in order to rebalance
| and refocuse the motivational energy that made you "blurt
| that rather vague 2-paragraph passage out".
| :-)

I wasn't referring to =you=, Peter.

| > But I'm Happy for our interaction re.
| > this stuff because one of the places
| > I looked for info on Janov was The
| > Encyclopedia Britannica. Found no-
| > thing on Janov, but I did find some
| > =Interesting= stuff with respect to
| > "fever".
| Why would you - of all people -
| expect to find information about Janov in
| Encyclopedia Brittanica!?

Honestly, I expected him to be in-there.

I also checked my copy of the =Concise
Columbia Encyclopedia" before I ventured
into "the deep freeze". [Brought in about
15 other books, so my "sardine-can" got
smaller by that amount :-] They're all
Great Books, and they "bekoned" to me
to "touch" their stuffs while I was searching
for the Janov book.

| Janov has, because of his writings,
| far greater number of detractors
| than you have.

I wasn't aware of that.

| (I don't like every facet of what he has written either, BTW.)

I didn't intent to "reject" his work. I
just checked to see if he "connected"
it with the Neuroscience, and 'found'
that he didn't [funny quotes around
"'found'" because I just skimmed his
book and wrote what I wrote on the
basis of that].

| You are not the only odd-ball
| being sneered at by inEPTly AEVASIVE academics
| and ditto 'all and sundry'. :-\

I've Known, with Certainty, for 'decades'
that, if only I don't 'give-up', I'll have the
proverbial "last laugh", and that I don't
actually want the "last laugh", but want to
participate in the Initial-Joy of Humanity's

| Also, before I finish:
| Don't forget that the possible pitfalls of prejudice
| applies to you and me as well as to
| everyone else.
| Or does it not? ;-)

Yeah, it does.

It's 'just' that NDT's understanding
explains how and why it does, which
Eliminates the "negativity" inherent, al-
lowing everyone to transcend Prejudice".

It's all 'just' 'blindly'-automated TD E/I-
minimization that's "satisfied" at "voli-
tional diminishing-returns decision"
thresholds [AoK, Ap7] that're set too
low -- be-cause folks hadn't under-
stood how and why nervous systems
process information via 'blindly'-auto-
mated TD E/I-minimization.

Can you see it?

That understanding, itself, is what en-
ables folks to See the worth of doing
the information-processing work in-
herent in "lifting-up" their "volitional
diminishing-returns decision" thresholds
so that they can, then, =co-operate=
in achieving =mutual= TD E/I-minimi-
zation rather than Ravaging others'

As things've stood, since the Beginning,
absent-understanding, folks've 'just'
'blindly' and automatically resorted to
"force" ["aggression"] in their attempts
to 'achieve' TD E/I-minimization within
their =own= nervous systems, not un-
der standing how and why it is that that's
"Impossible" unless they simultaneously
achieve TD E/I-minimization within
others' nervous systems.

| Cheers, Ken
| Peter

Cheers, right-back, Peter,

ken [k. p. collins]

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