glutamate toxicity from soy: Cohen: Blaylock: Murray 2005.03.22 rmforall
[Comments by Rich Murray:
All movements tend to fragment into polarized, competitive factions.
One indicative symptom, and a major part of the social pathology, is
uncivil, impolite discourse, particularly personal disparagement and ad
There is no surer way to ruin one's own reputation among the "jury of one's
peers" than to persist in uncivil, disfunctional discourse.
Let us immediately, while aware of the log in another's eye, attend
primarily to the speck in ours.
Let us focus on the best in the other's offerings.
I am aware of some unfortunate developments, so that there are now, perhaps
unavoidably and also practically for the best, two major Net forums for
aspartame toxicity and related issues: aspartame at yahoogroups.com and
WNHO-Aspartame-Information at yahoogroups.com .
I belong to the first since Jan 1999, and am now a Co-Moderator, and to the
second, as a non-contributing member, since Jan 2005, as well as having my
own group, aspartameNM at yahoogroups.com since Oct 1999, which mainly is an
archive of posts by me or selected by me that builds up a comprehensive body
of information of great value to specialized professionals.
I am submitting the post by Martini and Blaylock for moderation to
aspartame at yahoogroups.com , since it maintains a reasonable level of
civility and summarizes important, complex facts in a convincing way.
Personally, as a vegan, I have not encountered convincing arguments for the
safety of soy as a major dietary component. Surely, dairy is even worse.
However, I follow the McDougall diet, with low protein and fats, and major
reliance on complex carbohydrates, vegetables, and fruits.
I have added spacing to Blaylock's response to improve readability. ]
From: "Dr. Betty Martini,D.Hum." <bettym19 at mindspring.com>
To: "Activist List-yahoogroups.com" <Activist_List at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [WNHO-Aspartame-Information] Response from Russell Blaylock, M.D.,
to Robert Cohen about soy
Date: Monday, March 21, 2005 4:52 PM
Yesterday Robert Cohen of www.notmilk.com put a column on his large
non-milk list against Dr. Blaylock and Dr. Mercola's warning against the
use of soy products. I believe he did this because he advocates soy milk
and sells a machine he calls soy toys. He also has a large calling with 7
Day Adventists who should also receive this rebuttal from Dr.
Blaylock. Robert's information was wrong and I couldn't stop him nor could
I convince him to allow Dr. Blaylock to show his side so people getting the
information could form their opinion having both sides of the debate. Dr.
Blaylock has answered Robert. This article is chock full of incredible,
life-saving information everyone should have. I'm putting it on my lists
but I hope that others who have lists will, in fact, also share it, publish
it and saturate the globe with it. Dr. Blaylock's web site with his books
is www.russellblaylockmd.com and he also has an excellent newsletter. Also
for more information on MSG go to www.truthinlabeling.org Dr. Blaylock can
be seen in the movie Sweet Misery: A Poisoned World
(cori at soundandfuryproductions.com) Stay tuned for Sweet Remedy, coming
Dr. Blaylock's rebuttal was very necessary because "Truth" always comes
first, and we're talking about people's lives. It's bad enough that
industry and professional organizations who are funded by industry mislead
the public. And the glutamate people are very powerful and continually put
out propaganda to consumers. Dr. Blaylock's information is brilliant and
is the truth of the matter.
All my best,
Dr. Betty Martini, Founder, Mission Possible International, 9270 River Club
Parkway, Duluth, Georgia 30097 770 242-2599 www.wnho.net (subscribe to
the Aspartame Information list for continued info on aspartame and
MSG) and www.dorway.com
Response to Robert Cohen's Slanderous Statements
I have been sent an e-mail that you have circulated concerning my
objections to soy-based foods. I must say your slanderous rantings are that
of a three-year old having a temper tantrum, not a reasoned discussion of
the issues involved. You portray yourself as a "scientist", but I fail to
see your credentials posted. I am a board-certified neurosurgeon, retired
Clinical Assistant Professor of Neurosurgey, Visiting Professor of Biology
at Belhaven College and have written over 30 papers published in
peer-reviewed scientific journals. I serve on the editorial board of the
Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons and the Journal of the American
My recent papers on the connection between excitotoxicity and fluoride
neurotoxicity, and autism and the Gulf War Syndrome have received praise
from leading authorities in each of these areas of research. I am the
co-developer of one of the most commonly used methods for removal of
intraventricular meningiomas, for which I am given credit in all major
neurosurgical texts, along with my mentor Ludwig G, Kempe, one of the most
famous names in Neurosurgey.
I have written three chapters in three medical textbooks as well as
three nutrition books for the lay public, one of which you quoted, citing
me as an expert in the field. I do extensive study in the field of
Since you are now in the business of selling soy products and a
soy-milk making machine, I can understand your concern for your financial
future. That has nothing to do with science. If your reading public wants
an excellent review of the dangers of soy I suggest they read Dr. Kaayla
Daniel's newly released book- The Whole Soy Story.
You rambling defense of soy safety falls far short of science for a
number of reasons.
Aspartic acid, which is a naturally occurring amino acid, that, despite
your statement that it is an essential amino acid, is not. It can be
synthesized from oxaloacetate and glutamate via transamination. What you
and many of the defenders of excitatory amino acid safety cannot seem to
understand, or refuse to understand, is that free amino acids act
differently than those occurring in whole foods.
Digestion breaks most proteins into amino acids only at a very slow
rate. I quote Guyton's Textbook of Medical Physiology, page 794- " As a
result the normal rate of absorption... (amino acid absorption is
determined) by the rate at which they can be released from the proteins
during digestion. For these reasons, essentially no free amino acids can be
found in the intestine during digestion."
When soybeans are processed, the excitotoxic amino acids (glutamate and
aspartate) are not only released, they are concentrated. This is especially
so in soy protein isolates and soy protein concentrates-which are used in
soy milk. This means that your figures on the glutamic and aspartic acid
contents is much lower than in fact exist in your product.
Olney and others have shown that human blood levels of glutamate
increase as much as 20X on glutamate loading with concentrations found in
such hydrolyzed proteins. These high blood levels are transferred into the
human brain, especially under certain circumstances. Even in the completely
normal brain, glutamate, aspartate and other excitotoxins can enter the
brain via the circumventricular organs, which includes the hypothalamus. As
you certainly know, or should know, one of the most sensitive structures in
the brain is the arcuate nucleus. It is easily destroyed by levels of
glutamate found in hydrolyzed proteins and this has been proven in
It is also known that the blood-brain barrier contains glutamate
receptors and that free glutamate at these concentrations, can open the
barrier, allowing these high levels of glutamate to freely enter the brain.
It is also known that a multitude of conditions open the barrier,
including strokes (both gross and silent), brain injury, brain tumors,
certain pesticides, mercury, lead, autoimmune disorders (lupus, rheumatoid
arthritis, etc), radiofrequency radiation (cell phones), seizures, multiple
sclerosis and infections. Anyone with these conditions should avoid
products that contain high levels of excitotoxins, such as hydrolyzed soy
products. This constitutes a large percentage of the population.
In addition, pregnant women should avoid such excitotoxin-containing
products, since the placenta concentrates the glutamate, exposing the baby
to much higher levels of glutamate than the mother. This has been proven.
It has also been proven, that the baby's brain is 5X more sensitive to
excitotoxin exposure than is the adult brain and that humans are 4X more
sensitive than the next most sensitive animal species. And this is under
the best of conditions.
It has been shown that inflammation dramatically increases the toxicity
of excitotoxins on the brain, especially in small children. This means that
any inflammatory condition, virus, bacterial infection or immune disorder,
will increase a person's and especially a baby's risk of injury. Since the
human baby's brain undergoes its most rapid growth and development from the
last trimester of pregnancy through the first 2 years of life, it is most
at risk from food-based excitotoxins, such as hydrolyzed soy.
A number of recent studies have shown that excess glutamate exposure
during this period of "brain growth spurt" can alter the development of the
child's brain, especially neuroendocrine, cognitive, behavioral and
I am sure many of your readers are not aware that one of the earliest
finding during glutamate research was that newborn animals fed glutamate
developed gross obesity. This has been repeated numerous times and is used
in obesity studies. An international panels of neuroscientist cited this as
a possible reason for the obesity epidemic in the developed world. With the
dramatic increase in glutamate food additives and consumption of soy
products, especially soy based formula and soy milk by babies and small
children, is is no wonder we are seeing this epidemic of childhood gross
obesity and diabetes. Experimentally, glutamate exposure in these same
doses can induce diabetes in animals.
Experiments have also shown that early exposure to glutamate can
alter-permanently-the baby's vascular reactivity. This would have major
implications in cardiovascular disease. Likewise, early exposure to higher
levels of glutamate, equal to that of food-based excitotoxins, results in
behavioral problems, endocrine disruption, increased susceptibility to
seizures early in life and alterations in lipid profiles that increase the
likelihood of cardiovascular disease later in life. In fact, newer studies
have shown that elevated blood glutamate significantly increases free
radical generation in the endothelial lining of blood vessels-the very
mechanism that causes atherosclerosis.
Recent research has also shown that many tissues and organs in the
body contain glutamate receptors and that overstimulation of these
receptors can cause a number of clinical problems. For example, glutamate
receptor stimulation of pulmonary tissues can result in bronchiospasm (as
in asthma) and worsening of pulmonary function in those with lung diseases.
The heart muscle and heart conduction system (AV and SA nodes) also contain
numerous glutamate receptors. As I pointed out, the pancreas (ilets of
Langerhans) also contain abundant glutamate receptors, and explains the
Even more frightening is the recent discovery that glutamate greatly
enhances the growth of a number of cancers-especially brain cancers, such
as the glioblastoma and malignant astrocytoma. Breast, lung and ovarian
cancers have also been shown to spread and metastasize faster when
glutamate levels are elevated. This has been proven, and is beyond dispute.
We know that under certain conditions, glutamate toxicity is greatly
increased, which includes low magnesium levels, deficient mitochondrial
energy production [such as hypoglycemia, mitochondrial disease, during
aging, with all of the neurodegenerative disease (Alzheimer's, Parkinson's
and ALS] and most chronic diseases), during inflammation and when
associated with other toxins-including mercury, lead, cadmium, aluminum,
pesticides, fluoride and industrial chemicals. This would include tens of
millions of Americans, who should be avoiding soy products.
While there is a lot more concerning excitotoxins, which can be found
in my two books-Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills and Health and Nutrition
Secrets That Can Save Your Life., unfortunately, there is a lot more
involved than just excitotoxins. Soybeans and especially their hydrolyzed
and processed products, contain high levels of manganese, aluminum and
fluoride-all of which are powerful cell toxins, especially for brain cells.
Recent studies have shown that when aluminum is combined with
fluoride, which occurs very easily, brain levels of aluminum are doubled.
Extensive research connects aluminum in the brain with most of the
neurodegenerative diseases. When hydrolyzed as in soy milk, the fluoride
and aluminum easily bind, forming neurotoxic fluoroaluminum compounds. The
concentration at which this occurs in 0.5 ppm, a very small concentration.
Fluoroaluminum compounds interact with G-proteins, which are common cell
communication systems, especially in the brain and operate most of the
glutamanergic receptors in the brain (glutamate receptors).
I would call attention to a most important study reported in the
Journal of the American College of Nutrition in the year 2000. It describes
a 25 year study of middle-aged individuals consuming a diet containing
tofu, which found a strong association with brain atrophy and cognitive
impairment and the consumption of this soy product. Brain atrophy was
determined by MRI scans. In fact, low brain weight was seen in 12% of men
consuming the lowest amount of tofu and 40% consuming the highest amount.
This indicates a dose-response effect, making a stronger case of
I can go on forever with research and studies showing a significant
danger of consuming large amounts of soy products, especially soy milk, but
I have other things to do-like research processed food toxicology.
I would hope that Mr. Cohen would in the future refrain from his
temper tantrums and childish, slanderous name-calling. Neither I nor Dr.
Mercola are idiots, morons or suffering from delusions. What we are not
doing is making money selling soy products. I expect this response to
appear on your website.
Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.
aspartame, MSG, excitotoxins, NMDA glutamate receptors, multiple sclerosis:
Blaylock: Martini: Murray 2004.06.25 rmforall
Lancet website aspartame letter 1999.07.29:
Excitotoxins 1999 Part 1/3 Blaylock: Murray 2000.01.14 rmforall
The Medical Sentinel Journal 1999 Fall; (95 references)
The Truth behind the Vaccine Coverup, Russell Blaylock MD:
Murray 2004.09.11 rmforall
[ My References [ not in PubMed ]
Interaction of cytokines, excitotoxins, and reactive nitrogen and oxygen
species in autism spectrum disorders. J. Amer Nutr Assoc. 2003; 6: 21-35.
The central role of excitotoxicity in autism spectrum disorders.
J Amer Nutra Assoc. 2003; 6: 7-19.
Chronic microglial activation and excitotoxicity secondary to excessive
immune stimulation: possible factors in Gulf War Syndrome and autism.
J Amer Phys Surg. 2004; 9: 46-51. ]
[ Rich Murray: I believe there is substantial evidence that vaccines, which
do involve risks and often have harmful ingredients, play an essential
positive role in preventing, treating, and even eradicating many infectious
Russell L. Blaylock, MD 601-982-1175 Madison, Mississippi
"Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills", 1977, 298 p., 493 references.
"Health and Nutrition Secrets that can save your life", 2002, 459 p.,
558 + 30 references, $ 30 http://www.russellblaylockmd.com/
George R. Schwartz, MD "In Bad Taste: The MSG Syndrome", 1988
http://www.healthpress.com/goodbooks at healthpress.com
PO Box 37470 Albuquerque, NM 87176 505-888-1394
Kathleen Frazier, Publisher
www.belhaven.edu/ Belhaven College
1500 Peachtree Street Jackson, MS 39202
1-800-960-5940 fax 601-968-9998
Belhaven College News Release
Where the Power of Knowledge meets the Power of Faith
For Immediate Release Media Contact: Heather Denison
Director of Communications 601-968-5930; hdenison at belhaven.edu
After 6 p.m.: 601-278-2547
Russell Blaylock Seminar Series at Belhaven College
JACKSON, Miss. (August 20, 2004) - Dr. Russell Blaylock, board certified
neurosurgeon, author and lecturer, will conduct a nutrition lecture series
at Belhaven College on September 16, November 11 and 18 from 6 p.m.
until 7:30 p.m. in the McCravey-Triplett Student Center Theater.
Part of the department of biology's Fall Seminar Series, Blaylock's lecture
topics include; "Nutrition, Cancer Prevention and Cancer Treatment," "Effect
of Toxic Metals on the Brain," and "Nutrition and the Brain."
The seminars are open to the public with a fee of $10 per lecture or $25 for
For the past 26 years, Blaylock has practiced neurosurgery in addition to
having a nutritional practice. He recently retired to devote himself
fulltime to nutritional studies and research.
Blaylock has also written three books, "Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills,"
"Health and Nutrition Secrets That Can Save Your Life" and "Nutritional
Strategies for the Cancer Patient" and a booklet on nutritional protection
against nuclear, chemical and biological terrorism. Also an illustrator, he
has written and illustrated
three chapters in medical textbooks and a booklet on multiple sclerosis.
Since the publication of his first book, he has been a guest on numerous
syndicated radio programs as well as the 700 club.
Currently, Blaylock serves on the editorial staff of the Journal of the
American Nutraceutical Association
and is the associate editor of the Journal of American Physicians and
He recently retired as clinical assistant professor of neurosurgery at the
University of Mississippi Medical Center and now serves as
a visiting professor in the department of biology at Belhaven College.
Belhaven College is a Christian liberal arts college founded in 1894 and is
the only evangelical college that offers majors in each of the creative
arts; art, music, dance theatre, and creative writing. The vision of
Belhaven College is to prepare men and women academically and spiritually to
serve Christ Jesus in their careers, in human relationships and in the world
of ideas. Belhaven College has campuses in Jackson, Miss., Memphis, Tenn.,
and Orlando, Fla. -30-
From: "Robert Cohen" <notmilk at earthlink.net>
To: <notmilk at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: NOTMILK - Glutamic Idiots
Date: Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:06 AM
I received the following letter from one of my readers:
I think soy is naturally high in L-Glutamine or Glutamic
acid. I think it can tend to glue up the brain and make
the thoughts sticky. I know soy can damage the thyroid
and eventually the pituitary. People with bad thyroids
can get foggy thinking and certain pains in muscles.
When the pitutary swells too much from the above it can
press too much on the eyeball and possibly the brain.
(Name and Email Address withheld)"
In his book, 'Prescription for Nutritional Healing,"
Dr. James Balch says this about glutamic acid, one
of 28 amino acids:
"L-Glutamic Acid (or glutamate) increases firing of
neurons in the nervous system. It metabolizes sugars and
fats, and detoxifies ammonia when used with L-glutamine.
This amino acid also helps correct personality disorders.
Besides glucose, glutamic acid is the only compound used
for brain fuel. The brain converts glutamic acid to a
compound that regulates brain cell activity."
Some misinformants claim that soy is dangerous because
it contains glutamic acid.
The doctor putting out the greatest amount of disinformation
on that subject is Russell Blaylock, author of "Excitotoxins."
Dr. Blaylock is right on about his criticism of Aspartame,
the artificial sweetener. Aspartame (Nutrapoison) has
three components: Phenylalanine, Methanol, and Aspartic
Acid. Blaylock (and other poorly informed physicians like
him, including Mercola) believe that aspartic acid is poison.
Both Mercola and Blaylock are meat-eating dairy-consuming
ignoramuses. That is their choice, of course, but their
obligation, having taken the Hippocratic oath, is
to disseminate truth, not lies. To eat chicken and not
tofu because of the glutamic acid "threat" is to
consume nearly six times the amount of glutamic acid.
To Dr. Blaylock: Knock, knock. Wake up and climb upon
the bandwagon of truth.
Having done research to determine the level of glutamic acid
in various portions of food, let me share the facts with you.
One portion (100 grams) of human breast milk contains
0.17 grams of glutamic acid. Just for the record, a 100-gram
portion of soymilk contains almost four times the amount of
glutamic acid as does breast milk, 0.64 grams.
Both Blaylock and Mercola label soymilk as being dangerous
because of that relatively high amount of glutamic acid. Take
note that a 100-gram portion of tofu (Mori-nu silken soft)
contains 0.80 grams of glutamic acid.
Both Blaylock and Mercola are cheeseheads, and continue
to eat large amounts of fish and chicken. If their claim
that soymilk is bad because it contains four times the
amount of glutamic acid as does human breast milk,
conclude what you will about their advice after reading
the amounts of glutamic acid in hundred-gram portions
of animal products:
human milk = 0.17 grams
soy milk = 0.64 grams (3.8 times that of human milk)
soft tofu = 0.80 grams (4.7 times human milk)
broiled salmon = 3.23 grams (19 times)
broiled steak = 3.35 grams (19.7 times)
broiled chicken (white meat) = 4.63 grams (27.2 times)
cheddar cheese = 6.09 grams = (35.8 times)
One might assume that the brains of men like Dr.
Blaylock and Dr. Mercola not have been compromised
by internal secretions of aspartic acid. Instead, it
is clear that these two poorly informed physicians
have neurons and synapses ovedosed by copious amounts
of assanine acid.
Robert Cohen http://www.notmilk.com
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Sales volume: saccharin > sucralose > aspartame, Harold Brubaker
timesleader.com 2005.03.20: Murray rmforall
www.dorway.com: original documents and long reviews of flaws in
aspartame toxicity research: Murray 2002.07.31 rmforall
Samuels: Strong: Roberts: Gold: flaws in double-blind studies re
aspartame and MSG toxicity: Murray 2002.08.01 rmforall
"Survey of aspartame studies: correlation of outcome and funding
sources," 1998, unpublished: http://www.dorway.com/peerrev.html
Walton found 166 separate published studies in the peer reviewed
medical literature, which had relevance for questions of human safety.
The 74 studies funded by industry all (100%) attested to aspartame's
safety, whereas of the 92 non-industry funded studies, 84 (91%)
identified a problem. Six of the seven non-industry funded studies
that were favorable to aspartame safety were from the FDA, which
has a public record that shows a strong pro-industry bias.
Ralph G. Walton, MD, Prof. of Clinical Psychology, Northeastern Ohio
Universities, College of Medicine, Dept. of Psychiatry, Youngstown,
OH 44501, Chairman, The Center for Behavioral Medicine,
Northside Medical Center, 500 Gypsy Lane, P.O. Box 240 Youngstown,
OH 44501 330-740-3621 rwalton193 at aol.comhttp://www.neoucom.edu/DEPTS/Psychiatry/walton.htmhttp://www.dorway.com/upipart1.txthttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/262
aspartame expose 96K Oct 1987 Part 1/3: Gregory Gordon, UPI reporter:
Murray 2000.07.10 rmforall
aspartame history Part 1/4 1964-1976: Gold: Murray 1999.11.06 rmforall
revolving door, Monsanto, FDA, EPA: NGIN: Murray 2002.12.23 rmforall
http://www.truthinlabeling.org/ Truth in Labeling Campaign [MSG]
Adrienne Samuels, PhD The toxicity/safety of processed
free glutamic acid (MSG): a study in suppression of information.
Accountability in Research 1999; 6: 259-310. 52-page review
P.O. Box 2532 Darien, Illinois 60561
858-481-9333 adandjack at aol.comhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/927
Donald Rumsfeld, 1977 head of Searle Corp., got aspartame FDA approval:
Turner: Murray 2002.12.23 rmforall
A very detailed, highly credible account of the dubious approval process for
aspartame in July, 1981 is part of the just released two-hour documentary
"Sweet Misery, A Poisoned World: An Industry Case Study of a Food Supply
In Crisis" by Cori Brackett: cori at soundandfuryproductions.comhttp://www.soundandfuryproductions.com/ 520-624-9710
2301 East Broadway, Suite 111 Tucson, AZ 85719
Aspartame Victims Support Group Edward Bryant Holman, Chief Moderator
798 members, 18,187 posts in a public, searchable archive
http://www.presidiotex.com/aspartame/bryanth at presidiotex.nethttp://www.HolisticMed.com/aspartamemgold at holisticmed.com
Aspartame Toxicity Information Center Mark D. Gold also Co-Moderator
12 East Side Drive #2-18 Concord, NH 03301 603-225-2110
"Scientific Abuse in Aspartame Research"
http://www.sweetpoison.com/ Janet Starr Hull, PhD, CN jshull at sweetpoison.comhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1092
Janet Starr Hull, who also had Graves disease in 1991, told Justin Dumais to
quit aspartame: Murray 2004.06.12 rmforall
http://www.aspartamesafety.commarystod at airmail.net
Mary Nash Stoddard, Founder
Aspartame Consumer Safety Network and Pilot Hotline [1987-2004]
P.O. Box 2001 Frisco, TX 75034 1-214-387-4001 [ 25 miles N of Dallas ]
safety of aspartame Part 1/2 12.4.2: EC HCPD-G SCF:
Murray 2003.01.12 rmforall EU Scientific Committee on Food, a whitewash
Mark Gold exhaustively critiques European Commission Scientific
Committee on Food re aspartame ( 2002.12.04 ): 59 pages, 230 references
genotoxicity of aspartame in human lymphocytes 2004.07.29 full plain text,
Rencuzogullari E et al, Cukurova University, Adana, Turkey 2004 Aug: Murray
Murray, full plain text & critique:
chronic aspartame in rats affects memory, brain cholinergic receptors, and
brain chemistry, Christian B, McConnaughey M et al, 2004 May:
eyelid contact dermatitis by formaldehyde from aspartame, AM Hill & DV
Belsito, Nov 2003: Murray 3.30.4 rmforall [ 150 KB ]
methanol (formaldehyde, formic acid) disposition: Bouchard M et al, full
plain text, 2001: substantial sources are degradation of fruit pectins,
liquors, aspartame, smoke: Murray 2005.03.19 rmforall
continuing aspartame debate in British Medical Journal, John Biffra, Bob
Dowling, Nick Finer, Ian J Gordon: Murray 2005.02.09 rmforall
EPA Preliminary Remedial Goals, PRGs, 2003 Oct, air and tap water --
methanol, formaldehyde, formic acid -- not mentioned is methanol from
aspartame, dark wines and liquors: Murray 2004.11.20 rmforall
Nurses Health Study can quickly reveal the extent of aspartame (methanol,
formaldehyde, formic acid) toxicity: Murray 2004.11.21 rmforall
Rich Murray, MA Room For All rmforall at comcast.net
1943 Otowi Road, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505 USA 505-501-2298
147 members, 1,158 posts in a public searchable archive