[Neuroscience] Re: why did humans grow a bigger neocortex?

konstantin kouzovnikov via neur-sci%40net.bio.net (by myukhome from hotmail.com)
Sun Jul 22 07:47:22 EST 2007


I brought up Merker's treatment of brain stem to augment John's posting 
concerning phylogenesis of neocortex. I think Merker's views on this topic 
within his detailed rational behind his concept of anti-corticocentrism are 
important.
There was no attempt to re-instate any discussions re consciousness, 
emotion, or anything else as I agree with Peter: any discussion not 
involving replacement of the old mythology involving terms such as 
Consciousness, Emotion, Cognition, Perception, Memory which are all 
implicitly disenfranchised from each other, would be at least to some degree 
waist of time. Merker has made a quiet revolution: such actually accepted 
attempts will be now accepted as a way to go. However, if anyone feels good 
about adding a thought or two to what folks like Doug Watt or, for instance, 
another king of emotion Panksepp had to say - I am totally for it.

Konstantin


>From: "John H." <bingblat from goaway.com.au>
>To: neur-sci from magpie.bio.indiana.edu
>Subject: Re: [Neuroscience] Re: why did humans grow a bigger neocortex?
>Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:28:50 +1000
>
>Hello Glen,
>
>You mean like,
>
>20/07/2007 14:26
>
>
>
>
>"Since the brain is unlike any other structure in the known universe, it
>seeems reasonable to expect that our understanding of its functioning - if
>it can ever be achieved - will require approaches that are drastically
>different from the way we understand other physical systems."
>
>
>The Brain: The Last Frontier. Restak, RM, Garden City, NY. Doubleday 1979
>
>Now there's synchronicity for you, I just read that not ten minutes ago. 
>Not
>really happy with Restak's comment but I take his drift. I think it may
>apply to more than just the brain, it seems to me that physiology in 
>general
>is loaded with multitudes of mysteries and that our understanding of
>biological processes en masse requires a cognitive overhaual. So the 
>problem
>may be much deeper than I care to think about, which means I'm too stupid
>for the task. I can see the problem but I can find no way of addressing it.
>
>KK isn't giving much away about what he's up too. It is much more than you
>suggest.
>
>As to the demise of behaviorism I recall a conversation with an old friend
>who spent much of his career treating brain injured people at a leading US
>rehab hospital. I referred him to an article on a new therapy seemingly
>based around behaviorist principles. He commented that while all the bells
>and whistles technology may dominate the news releases and research, at the
>clinical level it is common practice to invoke behaviorist style strategies
>in treatment. So take some heart at least, behaviorist ideas are being
>implemented at the coalface, where it counts. Of course my friend may be
>biased, he worked with Catania ... .  However his thoughts are echoed in
>Opening Skinner's box: Great Psychological Experiments of the Twentieth
>Century(Lauren Slater). At the start of this text the author elaborates on
>how much Skinner's ideas are spread throughout our cultural processes, from
>prisons to traffic control. A tragic comedic aspect of this text is that 
>she
>did a Rosenhan and Szasz on some local psychiatric institutions and sadly
>her little ad hoc experiments produced somewhat similiar results to those
>rebellious souls.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Glen M. Sizemore" <gmsizemore2 from yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:469fa130$0$17161$ed362ca5 from nr2.newsreader.com...
> >
> > "John H." <bingblat from goaway.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:139utvrecd48c4d from corp.supernews.com...
> > > Hello Peter,
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, there is some very interesting stuff that this chap is coming up
> > > with.
> > > Even decortication can allow the animal to engage in quite complex
> > > behaviors. The idea that consciousness is a "higher function" is just
> > > dualism in disguise. Perhaps like yourself I don't believe in "all or
> > > nothing consciousness". Actually these days I can't even clearly
> > > distinguish
> > > "consciousness" and awareness". We need a new way to understand all 
>this
> > > and
> > > this chap is heading in the right direction.
> >
> > I disagree. Most of what he says is not new - indeed, the distinctions
> > between implicit and explicit memories etc. shows that this stuff is old
> > hat. What is needed is a conceptual overhaul of cognitive "science."
> > Unfortunately, one exists (its called "behaviorism") already but has 
>been
> > largely ignored.
> >
> >
> >
> > > "Entertained by my own EIMC" <write_to_eimc from ozemail.com.au> wrote in
> > > message
> > > news:469e2344$0$12825$5a62ac22 from per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> > >> It looks like your list contains references that are might be
>rationally
> > >> aligned with the concepts of levels (and "lines") of consciousness 
>(or
>of
> > >> actending or paying actention).
> > >>
> > >> ["1st-line, 2nd-line, and 3rd-line consciousness" are expression used
>by
> > >> Arthur Janov.]
> > >>
> > >> The normally naive, neglectful and nebulous (hollow-headed or empty)
> > > meaning
> > >> of "consciousness" will continue according to people's careless
>ignorance
> > >> and neglect of available relevant scientific facts - i.e. it will
> > >> continue
> > >> unless these facts become corroberated towards the formation of a
> > >> subsumed
> > >> crystaline (by definition 'in dEPTh') meaning.
> > >>
> > >> "konstantin kouzovnikov" <myukhome from hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:mailman.292.1184611717.11350.neur-sci from net.bio.net...
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >>From: "John H." <bingblat from goaway.com.au>
> > >> >>To: neur-sci from magpie.bio.indiana.edu
> > >> >>Subject: [Neuroscience] Re: why did humans grow a bigger neocortex?
> > >> >>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:20:24 +1000
> > >> >>
> > >> >>It may be purely anatomical, standing upright, the skull base must 
>be
> > >> >>changed and that may allow some favourable changes.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > The following may contribute to the discussion:
> > >> >
> > >> > Merker B.
> > >> > Related Articles, Links
> > >> > Consciousness without a cerebral cortex: A challenge for 
>neuroscience
> > > and
> > >> > medicine.
> > >> > Behav Brain Sci. 2007 Feb;30(1):63-81.
> > >> > PMID: 17475053 [PubMed - in process]
> > >> >
> > >> > Merker B.
> > >> > Related Articles, Links
> > >> > Grounding consciousness: The mesodiencephalon as thalamocortical
>base.
> > >> > Behav Brain Sci. 2007 Feb;30(1):110-20.
> > >> > PMID: 17475081 [PubMed - in process]
> > >> > 5:
> > >> > Watt DF.
> > >> > Related Articles, Links
> > >> > Affirmative-action for the brainstem in the neuroscience of
> > > consciousness:
> > >> > The zeitgeist of the brainstem as a "dumb arousal" system.
> > >> > Behav Brain Sci. 2007 Feb;30(1):108-10.
> > >> > PMID: 17475079 [PubMed - in process]
> > >> > 6:
> > >> > van Honk J, Morgan BE, Schutter DJ.
> > >> > Related Articles, Links
> > >> > Raw feeling: A model for affective consciousness.
> > >> > Behav Brain Sci. 2007 Feb;30(1):107-8.
> > >> > PMID: 17475078 [PubMed - in process]
> > >> > 7:
> > >> > Panksepp J.
> > >> > Related Articles, Links
> > >> > Emotional feelings originate below the neocortex: Toward a
>neurobiology
> > > of
> > >> > the soul.
> > >> > Behav Brain Sci. 2007 Feb;30(1):101-3.
> > >> > PMID: 17475073 [PubMed - in process]
> > >> > 8:
> > >> > Northoff G.
> > >> > Related Articles, Links
> > >> > Subcortical regions and the self.
> > >> > Behav Brain Sci. 2007 Feb;30(1):100-1.
> > >> > PMID: 17475071 [PubMed - in process]
> > >> > 9:
> > >> > Izard C.
> > >> > Related Articles, Links
> > >> > Levels of emotion and levels of consciousness.
> > >> > Behav Brain Sci. 2007 Feb;30(1):96-8.
> > >> > PMID: 17475068 [PubMed - in process]
> > >> > 10:
> > >> > Edelman DB.
> > >> > Related Articles, Links
> > >> > Consciousness without corticocentrism: Beating an evolutionary 
>path.
> > >> > Behav Brain Sci. 2007 Feb;30(1):91-2.
> > >> > PMID: 17475063 [PubMed - in process]
> > >> > 11:
> > >> > Doesburg SM, Ward LM.
> > >> > Related Articles, Links
> > >> > Corticothalamic necessity, qualia, and consciousness.
> > >> > Behav Brain Sci. 2007 Feb;30(1):90-1.
> > >> > PMID: 17475062 [PubMed - in process]
> > >> > 12:
> > >> > Coenen AM.
> > >> > Related Articles, Links
> > >> > Consciousness without a cortex, but what kind of consciousness is
>this?
> > >> > Behav Brain Sci. 2007 Feb;30(1):87-8.
> > >> > PMID: 17475059 [PubMed - in process]
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Cheers,
> > >> > konstantin
> > >> >
> > >> > _________________________________________________________________
> > >> > Tell Hotmail about an email that changed your life!
> > >> > http://www.emailbritain.co.uk/
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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