[Neuroscience] Re: Long-term potentiation and depression

Entertained by my own EIMC via neur-sci%40net.bio.net (by decoy from mindyaown.biz)
Wed Jun 18 03:25:39 EST 2008


"r norman" <r_s_norman from _comcast.net> wrote in message
news:eak8545lshq32jothp7uee7abeuccv6l8c from 4ax.com...
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:05:09 -0700 (PDT), Bill
> <connelly.bill from gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jun 15, 12:35 am, usene... from out-of-phase.de (Christian Wilms) wrote:
>>> Entertained by my own EIMC <de... from mindyaown.biz> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Yes, when "hours" is meant to imply "a lifetime" it takes just a
>>> > second
>>> > for someone like me to misinterpret the minutiae of this meaning.
>>>
>>> I would be willing to bet against "a lifetime"  when it comes to classic
>>> LTP/LTD. I think long-term "storage" will prove to be mediated by a
>>> different mechanism.
>>>
>>> Best, Chris
>>
>>Well there is LTP and there is LTP like mechanisms. Nothing in the
>>brain is done by LTP (100Hz for 1 sec 3 times). However strong
>>depolarisation leading to NMDA receptor dependent enhancement of
>>synaptic strength, I would be willing to bet that memory formation,
>>and maintainance is deeply dependent on this kind of mechanisms. (Re:
>>How long does LTP last, at least a year in an Adult Rat Perforant path-
>>DG (Abraham WC. How long will long-term potentiation last? Philos
>>Trans R Soc Lond B Biol Sci. 2003 358(1432):735-44)
>
> Once you start a second messenger cell signaling pathway, what you
> call a "different" mechanism becomes much a matter of philosophy.  If
> you temporarily upregulate a synaptic receptor pathway so that the
> effect lasts hours or days until protein turnover restores it to the
> old value, is that a different mechanism from one that activates a
> different kind of gene switch that can last forever but still uses a
> number of the same intermediaries?  I would call these different.
>

It will is of course always be possible to "split hairs". %}

The possibility (to split hairs) does not change the fact that there are
precise changes within brains (changes that are not perfectly
specified, or defined, nor necessarily ever
perfectly specifiable) that LTP is a (far from 'inEPT')
explanatory pointer toward.

These are not uncommon changes, And, why and how they occur, and *that* they
have consequences that are deeply ironic (and far from completely comedic).

I don't know of a careful and conventional science-reflecting expression
that is better than LTP (though it is of course even better if supplemented
by references to all relevant forms of
"neural plasticity") at serving the purpose of referring to how excitatory
and inhibitory neurons [that most centrally and directly maintain the kind 
of states that I call
CURSES - a concept (concEPT) that Janov calls primal pain and that the
commercially and legally clever originators of a sect that calls itself The 
Church of
Scientology euphemistically refer to as "engrams" and that 'mainstream
followers of Freud' would tend to describe something like "repressed
memories imprinted by traumatizing predicaments"]
can and do get 'conditioned' (i.e. CURSES-specific neurons can/do get 
'functurally' altered)
by predicaments of a type that "implores" (a figurative stand-in for
"requires" - i.e., requires for reproductive and/or
individual survival) "_specific/synaptic hibernation_".

"Specific/synaptic hibernation" is part of a fresh (by me found and
funnily formulated) way of perceiving and poignantly pointing out that, why,
and how we function and have evolved to have the capacity to function, and
normally develop (and tend to be environmentally conditioned) to function,
in ways that contain CURSES; That is, contain and often allows creative 
coping with CURSES type states after these have been 'created' (or as if 
'put') inside people's central nervous {and "actention selection serving"} 
systems by predicaments that by definitely *not* inEPT definition "implore 
Specific/synaptic Hibernation".

Specific/synaptic hibernation is to be understood against the contrasting
background of "general hibernation" (or aestivation, for the fact that an
important part of the common functional character of general and specific
hibernation is, that any 'default response' (that is, the response that 
would
occur in the absence of a capacity to cope by way of either specific
hibernation or general hibernation) would _not_ essentially involve a
self-regulatory function that achieves either a highly specific
(post-synaptic) or general (affecting the entire inividual organism) state
of "muted" (or minimized) metabolism.

Human individuals (especially immature ones that are
dependent on parents or others for having their needs met - but of
course other animals too) can significantly often be found to be in anything 
from
very slowly to very rapidly occurred natural or 'socially natural'
predicament (or ordeal) that can be referred to as "SHI (by approximate and 
MAD-inspired abbrevation from Specific/synaptic
Hibernation Imploring) type situations".

N.B.:
Replacing the figurative word "imploring" with "inducing" would immediately
collapse the completely generic quality of this concEPT/definition!

The consequences of SHI-type situations come CURSES are ironic in the sense
that they cause people [not the least those that are dedicated to (and/or
professionally preoccupied with) trying to understand our own brains and
behavior] to be selectively unconscious.

However, as it is can be encompassingly explained in an in-dEPTh (or in the 
one and only EPT) way, this kind of automatic defensive psychophysiological 
adjustment to inescapable adversity does often have a spin-off in that the 
LTP'ed excitatory component of the corresponding CURSES come to be 
channelled (or "rerouted") into and play a co-motivating part in people's 
learning of procreation promoting or [IOW, and in the context of 
conceivable, realistic, and relevant examples of "the naturally 
selective/Evolutionary Pressure Totality"] _"opportune" or 
'opportunity-taking ways of paying/focusing "actention".

This thus "double-edged" (obviously-to-have-been-naturally-selected-for) 
coping capability can be referred to (using pragmatically loose grammar and 
strategically smudged sem_antics) as "AEVASIVE" 
adjustments/adaptations/behaviors (etc).


Hence, it follows from EPT logic ;) that people who in their most vulnerable 
and formative stage of life were challanged by SHI-type predicaments (or 
ordeals) that turned into "selective hibernation _inducing_" type situations 
and CURSES in general (with very few excEPTions ;)) tend to be selectively 
incapable of percEPTivity and of coming to conceptual - even less often 
concEPTual - grips with) this very aspect of What Is (what has, is, and will 
be) going on.

The irony of this aspect is what I have ironed-out by help of an approach 
that
combines perverse percEPTivity with science-aligned 'fuzz_silly' logic" 
(EPTly so to speak).

Or, as it can be expressed by help of a more frivolous (but still only
decEPTively nothing but silly) MAD-inspired encoding: I ironed-out this by 
me originally only intuitively and eventually too irritatingly understood 
aspect by way of error plagued trials of a 'S_EPT_IC humored' analytical 
approach.

Mind you, this my pursuit and preoccupation has been no less AEVASIVE and no 
less originally co-motivated by SHI-type predicaments and subsequently 
crucially co-motivated by CURSES than different other AEVASIVE pursuits or 
preoccupations by others.

However, mine has most definitely been 'more EPT' than any other AEVASIVE 
historical and prehistorical human endeavor! ;-)

My regards to whoever tried to read and could stomach this reply

P

--

P.S.
The meaning of the acronym AEVASIVE makes the meaning of "AEVASIVE
endeavors" (or ditto preoccupations) not merely approximately synonymous
with but far more in-depth, objective, and balanced than the meaning of: 
"endeavors [or preoccupations or pursuits] that nearly in every individual 
and collective case symptomatic of "neurotic defenses" at work".





More information about the Neur-sci mailing list