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GRZEGORZ KRUK GKRUK at ie.tcd.vax1
Wed Sep 1 07:51:00 EST 1993


>From gkruk Mon Aug 30 13:00:30 1993
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 13:00:29 +0100
From: gkruk (grzegorz kruk)
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Path: unix2.tcd.ie!gkruk
Date: 30 Aug 93 11:24:53 GMT
Message-ID: <gkruk.746709893 at unix2.tcd.ie>
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
Subject: Re: growing plant
Distribution: bionet
References: <93829174607.MIN-LFABa00367.bionet-news at uk.ac.daresbury> <1993Aug30.001214.3253 at gserv1.dl.ac.uk>
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin

In <1993Aug30.001214.3253 at gserv1.dl.ac.uk> ajt at uk.ac.sari.rri (Tony Travis) writes:

>grzegorz kruk (gkruk at ie.tcd.unix2) wrote:
>: Hello,

>: When plant grows and above exists branch. Plant omits it 
>: growing up to the left or growing up to the right. If external
>: conditions on both sides of the branch were the same what would the
>: choice of the direction of growing depend on ?  
>: Could we say then, that a plant has free will ? Even if you have the
>: same enviroment in the garden every plant (the same sort) grows its own
>: way, some a bit to the left some a bit to the right. Some of them higher
>: and curly. It of course not the same level of the human's free will
>: 'cause plants beeing a low level organic form of existence have less
>: degrees of freedom. They can not walk out from the garden.

>.... and if you balance a pencil on its point the slightest perturbation
>to one side or the other makes the pencil fall that way.  So, does the
>pencil have free will?

Yes, but you can find a point where a pencil will be stable and will not
fall any way. It is difficult, but possible. In the case of a pensil
about the way it falls could decide e.g. a circulation of air in the
room or neighbour's borrowing machine these are external condition.
Plant grows this or that way, because internal parts of plant -cells
choose the way of growing (which could be determined by looking a
minimum energy of growing and maximum energy needed for life processes).
We have a free will suppose there is a bus at the bus stop and I have
25 meters to run to catch it. The next one is after 30 minutes and I 
start my work soon I wouldn't manage taking a next one. I have a
free will so I can take a cab (too expensive, 25 meters to run ?) I 
can take the next one and to see my boss cross or I can run or I can say
I can never go again to that place and change an employee and a few
more choices. And it is called my free will. But you can guess I will
run looking for a minimum energy and minimal stress. So where is that my
free will ? I can come to the place I work at different time of a day
every day staying once four hours, the next time 5 hours, 8 hours and so
on I will feel free (how long ?) Would they say after few weeks months,
that I am a headbanger or something like this. If I had a bad luck I 
could be even recognized as mentally ill.
The level of a free will of a plant is a possibility of the choice looking
for minimum energy.

>: If you grow the plant in the basement where are two small the same size
>: windows and the plant is between them. The same ammount of light comes
>: from the left window as from the right window. Which window does plant choose
>: One plant will choose a left one the second one will choose the
>: direction to the right one. Isn't it called a free will ?

>Same non-linear system, same explanation: nature is deterministic, but
>it would take millions of years to describe it according to chaos
>theory and in practice it is virtually impossible to predict what will
>happen because however accurately you measure the initial conditions it
>will not be accurate enough to predict very far ahead.

>Perhaps my reply was a little too predictable ...

>	Tony.
>-- 
>Dr. A.J.Travis,                       |  JANET: <ajt at uk.ac.sari.rri>

Grzegorz

mgr Gregorz Kruk (Ph.D. student)
_____GKRUK at mee.tcd.ie______GKRUK@vax1.tcd.ie______GKRUK at unix2.tcd.ie_____



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