plant that grows from a relative of the Yam family?

Cereoid+10 cereoid at prodigy.net
Wed Feb 12 02:25:31 EST 2003


Dictionaries aren't written by botanists, buckwheat.

If you are so sure that somewhere in the botanical literature there are
anatomical studies on storage roots or tubers of Dioscorea, find them before
rambling off bad definitions as if they were gospel. If you were as
interested in the plants as you pretend to be, you would have made the
effort to see them first hand and learn more about them instead of
continuing to be stupid. Dioscorea are not uncommon plants. They are used
pharmaceutically as a source of steroidal drugs. Despite all your reading,
you still haven't learned a thing. Stop wasting everybody's time, fool.



David Hershey <dh321 at excite.com> wrote in message
news:7039c6ef.0302091604.3d92dae2 at posting.google.com...
> Instead of making up your own definitions for common botanical terms,
> such as rootstock, you should check a book and see how botanists
> actually define them.
>
> It doesn't seem like you have any first-hand experience with Dioscorea
> yourself since you won't attest to it even when I ask.
>
> The easiest way to answer questions on uncommon plants, such as
> Dioscorea, is to look up the answer in books. It's not realistic to
> expect to go to a botanic garden and have them dig up their specimens
> so they can be examined for tubers or storage roots.
>
> I'm sure somewhere in the botanical literature there are anatomical
> studies on storage roots or tubers of Dioscorea.
>
> David R. Hershey
>
>
> "Cereoid+10" <cereoid at prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:<Z1m1a.3087$bG5.508 at newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>...
> > Where have you been, bookworm? Have you been too busy stunting trees to
wax
> > pedantic over nothing? You read too much yet have learned nothing. If
you
> > look hard enough, you can find conflicting definitions of almost
anything.
> > You might as well go back to stunting trees. You have beaten your yam to
> > death and nobody cares anymore.
> >
> >
> > David Hershey <dh321 at excite.com> wrote in message
> > news:7039c6ef.0302081752.2625541f at posting.google.com...
> > > What book defines rootstock as "the stock from which the roots, stems
> > > and leaves arise"? You seem to be making up your own definition and
> > > creating a new plant organ, the stock, that is neither root, stem or
> > > leaf.
> > >
> > > Gray's Manual of Botany defines rootstock as "a rhizome."
> > > Bailey's Manual of Cultivated Plants defines it as "same as rhizome."
> > > Hortus Third defines it as "subterranean stem, rhizome."
> > > Rost et al's 1979 Botany text defines it as "an elongated,
> > > underground, horizontal stem."
> > >
> > > Newer botany texts I consulted don't define rootstock or define it
> > > only in the context of grafting.
> > >
> > > You keep saying I "should look at the actual plants first hand." Have
> > > you examined every known species of Dioscorea to determine of they
> > > have tubers or storage roots?
> > >
> > > What book defines corm as "A true corm is a tuber covered by a tunic,
> > > as in the Crocus."?
> > > Not all corms have a tunic:
> > > http://virtual.clemson.edu/groups/hort/sctop/geophyte/type.htm#corms
> > >
> > > "Tubers" of tuberous begonia and cyclamen do not fit the common
> > > definition of tuber as a swollen
> > > tip of a rhizome. They are enlarged hypocotyls:
> > >
http://virtual.clemson.edu/groups/hort/sctop/geophyte/type.htm#enlarged
> > >
> > >
> > > David R. Hershey
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Cereoid+10" <cereoid at prodigy.net> wrote in message
> >  news:<VfM0a.476$7G.347 at newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>...
> > > > Rootstock is the stock from which the roots, stems and leaves arise.
> > > > What is so confusing about that?
> > > > The old definition is the original correct definition.
> > > >
> > > > You seem to be getting the definition backwards. Stock is the base
word
> >  to
> > > > the term not root. You insist upon making thing far more complicated
> >  than
> > > > necessary. Maybe you should stick to chocolate bars and stop trying
to
> > > > confuse everybody. Just because malaprops tend to become common
usage by
> >  the
> > > > great unwashed and eventually get listed in dictionaries, that
doesn't
> >  mean
> > > > they are correct usage of the terms. Common usage can be nothing but
> >  bull
> > > > shit. Tubers have even been mistaken for bulbs in common usage.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, there is more than one type of tuber even though the
terminology
> >  has
> > > > not been developed to define all of them thoroughly. Various types
of
> >  tubers
> > > > can have the growing points on their surface, forming a ring or
> >  restricted
> > > > to the apex, depending on the species. A true corm is a tuber
covered by
> >  a
> > > > tunic, as in the Crocus. The tuber of Cyclamen and tuberous Begonias
> >  lack
> > > > any tunic.
> > > >
> > > > Saying epigeal tubers or tubers in leaf axils are not "true tubers"
is
> > > > nonsense. There is no reason to believe that tubers can only be
> >  subterranean
> > > > organs.
> > > >
> > > > As I have said before, you should look at the actual plants first
hand
> > > > before waxing pedantic over references based on second and third
hand
> > > > information. You might actually learn something!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > David Hershey <dh321 at excite.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:7039c6ef.0302061640.771b2880 at posting.google.com...
> > > > > Rootstock is one of several botanical terms that have multiple
> > > > > definitions. You seem to be referring to the old gardening
definition
> > > > > of rootstock as a synonym for rhizome or underground stem. Using
> > > > > rootstock as a term for a stem is obviously confusing and
therefore
> > > > > undesirable.
> > > > >
> > > > > The more useful definition of rootstock is the root bearing part
of a
> > > > > grafted plant. However, even when applied to grafting, rootstock
is
> > > > > somewhat misleading. Less misleading terms are understock or
stock. A
> > > > > stock may consist solely of root tissue. However, a stock is
usually
> > > > > going to consist mostly of root tissue with a small amount of stem
> > > > > tissue. The stock of a topgrafted fruit tree will contain
considerable
> > > > > stem tissue. A stock may include an underground stem but usually
it
> > > > > will not. About the only plant with tubers that is occasionally
> > > > > grafted is potato. Tomato is grafted on potato as a novelty or for
> > > > > research.
> > > > >
> > > > > I mentioned several botanical sources, not just Websters
Dictionary.
> > > > > You mentioned no sources. Katherine Esau was a well respected
plant
> > > > > anatomist. The root chapter in her textbook, Anatomy of Seed
Plants,
> > > > > 2nd ed. says Dioscorea has "storage roots." Maybe Esau, Hortus
Third
> > > > > and the half dozen college botany textbooks I consulted are wrong
and
> > > > > Dioscorea does have tubers and not storage roots as you contend.
If
> > > > > so, where is some published proof of that? I checked Simpson and
> > > > > Ogorzally (1986) which says there is controversy whether Dioscorea
> > > > > storage organs represent stem or root tissue.
> > > > >
> > > > > Terms for modified stems are not uniformly defined and are often
> > > > > confusing. There seems to be more diversity in underground stems
than
> > > > > can be accomodated by the handful of terms commonly used. Tuberous
> > > > > root and tuber are particularly confusing terms. The term storage
root
> > > > > seems to be preferred over tuberous root in botany textbooks and
is
> > > > > certainly more accurate.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are different definitions for tuber. Some authorities
restrict
> > > > > tuber to a swollen underground organ that develops from a rhizome
or
> > > > > stolon. By that definition, tuberous begonia and cyclamen do not
> > > > > produce tubers although they are commonly called tubers. Cyclamen
is
> > > > > often referred to as a corm as well. Their storage organs develop
> > > > > mainly from the hypocotyl and have a vertical orientation, not the
> > > > > horizontal orientation of a "true" tuber. They are sometimes
termed
> > > > > tuberous stems instead (Hartmann and Kester 1983). However, that
term
> > > > > adds additional confusion. The aerial tubers of some Dioscorea
species
> > > > > are also not "true" tubers and are sometimes termed tubercles or
> > > > > bulbils.
> > > > >
> > > > > David R. Hershey
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > References
> > > > >
> > > > > Hartmann, H.T. and Kester, D.E. 1983. Plant Propagation:
Principles
> > > > > and Practices. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice Hall.
> > > > >
> > > > > Simpson, B.B. and Ogorzally, M.C. 1986. Economic Botany: Plants in
Our
> > > > > World. NY: McGraw-Hill.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Cereoid+10" <cereoid at prodigy.net> wrote in message
> >  news:<uV40a.704$kR2.658 at newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>...
> > > > > > The term rootsock does not mean the same as true roots. Roostock
> >  refers
> >  to
> > > > > > the central body of perennial plants and can be rhizomes,
tubers,
> >  bulbs,
> > > > > > etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Webster's (which is not a botanical reference anyway) is wrong.
The
> > > > > > rootstock of Dioscorea is a tuber. Often it is fleshy but it can
be
> >  woody
> > > > > > and caudiciform. None have tunicated corms.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You should look for yourself rather than rely on sources based
on
> >  second
> >  or
> > > > > > third hand information.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David Hershey <dh321 at excite.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:7039c6ef.0302041326.22733e31 at posting.google.com...
> > > > > > > A rootstock cannot be a tuber because a tuber is a modified
stem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A variety of terms are applied to storage structures of
Dioscorea.
> > > > > > > Katherine Esau in her Anatomy of Seed Plants text, Hortus
Third,
> > > > > > > Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (under yam) and all the
> >  college
> > > > > > > introductory botany texts I checked all say Dioscorea has a
> >  storage
> > > > > > > root or tuberous root. Hortus Third also says D. bulbifera
> >  produces
> > > > > > > aerial tubers, and some Dioscorea species have rhizomes. A few
> > > > > > > websites even claim some Dioscorea species do have corms.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Distinctions between types of modified stems, such as stolons,
> > > > > > > rhizomes, tubers and corms, are not always clear cut.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Reference
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=dioscorea+corm&btnG=Googl
> > > > > > e+Search
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > David R. Hershey
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Cereoid+10" <cereoid at prodigy.net> wrote in message
> >  news:<flA%9.3109$LZ6.1357 at newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>...
> > > > > > > > Sorry Spammy Davis, Jr. but you have already jumped to wrong
> > > >  conclusions
> > > >  and
> > > > > > > > that does not help.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The rootstock of Dioscorea is a tuber not a corm. A corm is
> >  covered
> >  by a
> > > > > > > > tunic but a tuber is not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dioscorea is a huge genus and even includes a number of cold
> >  hardy
> >  species.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The "Sweet Potato" Ipomoea batatas is a "Morning Glory" with
> > > >  tuberous
> > > >  roots.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I Don't Like Spam <nobody at ibm.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:1ait3vc1horkuisq67hljgo2v2tia0433s at 4ax.com...
> > > > > > > > > In article <v3rh869esm5ha5 at corp.supernews.com>,
> > > > > > > > > blair <blair863 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >I was at somebody's house once and they had a big
sprawling
> >  plant
> > > > > >  with
> > > > > >  heart
> > > > > > > > > >shaped leaves. They said that they grew it by putting a
> >  relative
> >  of
> > > > > >  the
> > > > > >  yam
> > > > > > > > > >family into the ground and planting it. Apparently you
could
> >  also
> >  plant a
> > > > > > > > > >yam and grow a different plant as well.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Does anyone know what this plant is?
> > > > > > > > > When I was in college, a friend planted a sweet potato in
a
> >  pot
> >  and
> > > > > > > > > let it grow. Later she told her room-mate that it was a
> >  "heart-shaped
> > > > > > > > > wandering jew". This was believed until an energetic pet
> >  knocked
> >  the
> > > > > > > > > pot over, breaking it, revealing the true nature of the
plant.
> >  As
> > > > > > > > > mentioned earlier, sweet potato is in Convolvulaceae, with
> >  morning
> > > > > > > > > glories.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I wouldn't have brought this up, except sitting on my
window
> >  sill
> >  here
> > > > > > > > > at work is a member of the yam family Dioscoreaceae,
> >  _Dioscorea
> > > > > > > > > macrostachya_, (dormant right now) the leaves of which are
> >  very
> > > > > > > > > similar to the heart shaped leaves of sweet potato. This
grows
> >  from a
> > > > > > > > > large corm that is quite interesting in appearance. In
nature
> >  this
> > > > > > > > > corm is hidden underground, but when sold as a houseplant,
the
> >  organ
> > > > > > > > > is kept above ground for show (some of the larger, older
ones
> >  resemble
> > > > > > > > > a tortoise shell, at least if you have an active
imagination).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, before we jump to conclusions about exactly what the
plant
> >  is,
> > > > > > > > > there ARE some members of the yam family kept as
houseplants
> >  that
> >  fit
> > > > > > > > > your description (although, in general, they are a bit
pricey,
> >  and
> >  not
> > > > > > > > > very common except perhaps through specialty succulent
> >  dealers).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sweet potatoes as sold in the US, often called yams (oh
the
> >  wonders of
> > > > > > > > > misleading common names). Ask your friend if they could
allow
> >  you
> >  to
> > > > > > > > > take a look at the underground stem by brusing away a
little
> >  soil.
> >  If
> > > > > > > > > it looks like a sweet potato, it probably is. Otherwise,
my
> >  Dioscorea
> > > > > > > > > has a THIN, SINGLE, TOUGH twining vine that comes from the
TOP
> >  of
> >  a
> > > > > > > > > CORM-like structure. If I recall correctly, a sweet potato
> >  would
> > > > > > > > > likely have SEVERAL sprouts coming from a VARIOUS POINTS
along
> >  a
> > > > > > > > > HORIZONTAL TUBER, and those sprouts would tend to be more
> >  FLESHY
> >  or
> > > > > > > > > SUCCULENT, at least close to the tuber.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hope this helps.





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