sports & baking & frustration!

Mr. W.Y. Chan wahchan at
Sun Dec 29 19:10:51 EST 1996

rtemple at NETMAIL.HSCBKLYN.EDU wrote:
: <without snipping from all the past messages>

: I've been reading all the messages about baking & sports, and realized that
: things that have happened to me are not singular events! Good discussion so
: far...

: When I was a kid, my father made it a point to NEVER let allow me win when we
: were playing games - from soccer to chess & back again. Whenever I won
: something, I was always facing a bigger, older, tougher opponent. As I got
: older, I played multiple sports - to include starting midfielder on the men's
: varsity soccer team. For the first three years, I was the only female player in
: the county playing varsity soccer (before women's soccer took hold). I learned
: that there were no breaks because you had a ponytail. In fact, I was usually
: more of a target for the opposition. After collisions w/ me, and finding out
: that I wasn't going to back down from a rough game, they treated me like I
: belonged there. My coach was just as hard on me as he was anyone else. My
: teammates treated me as an equal on the field - although they did retaliate a
: little more vigorously if someone decided to throw a swing at me. When it came
: to the game, we were all just people on the same team - trying to accomplish the
: same goal. And this was high school - when boys WILL be boys. 
: Having had this experience, AND having experienced 'the old boys club' too, I've
: come to realize that men CAN treat women as equals - but we have to do it by
: their standards most of the time. This is disheartening, to say the least. 

Hi Robyn,
I find its interesting you play soccer and I assume you are from USA?
In England and Europe as well as South America soccer is very popular sport
and currently all professional soccer are men, there are womens league but
all are part time (playing for fun). I was a bit surprise that you (a female)
was actually playing soccer at High school with the boys but at second thought
I remember the game has not really established well in the US and had only
recently taken a slow start after the recent World Cup and soccer in its
true form is a pretty dirty game as well as physical and of course skill
and tactical. I believe in England boys and girls can play soccer together
in school upto 9 yrs old and after that they get seperated because
girls start to loose out on the physical aspect.
On another note the game of hockey was (and probably still is) considered
a "girl's game" at our school, maybe only becuase the girls was encouraged
to take up that sport while the boys took interest in soccer, however
I was the star player for the boys at hockey and took to up the game very
quickly even though we only played no more than 3 or 4 times a year, the girls
played hockey regularly on twice weekly basis and being their sport they
have a proper school team. Well anyway one summer day we organised a
hockey tournament between the boys "part timers" Vs the girls School Team
and guess what, the boys thrashed the girls 5-0, we were better in all
department of the game, we werent being too physical just that we incorporated
the skill of teamwork acquired from soccer and willingness to pressurised
the opponent, maybe there is story somewhere.
As far as treating women as equals, not all but in my opinion most men can
treat women as equal and yes you would need to do it on our term, some
may criticise me for saying so but how else do you expect to gain equality
without earning it? Men too can be descriminated by women, well that is
another argument.


: When I was a research asst in college, I was also working in a bakery to make
: ends meet. I was one of the people who would decorate birthday cakes -
: airbrushing, etc. We were allowed to take home the day-old stuff, and I used to
: bring it into the lab office or the department office. "It's just going to be
: thrown out so I might as well bring it in," I would think. After the first 4
: months of working there, four of the older male prof's would come to me upset if
: I didn't bring them their bakery fix for the day. (This included my freshman
: research advisor who told me "sweetheart, you shouldn't go into such a man's
: career - you just don't seem capable enough." I ended up  switching ADVISORS &
: sticking w/ biology - and am now getting ready for my PhD thesis proposal.)
: Anyway, once I stopped bringing in the sweets, certain people stopped coming by
: & more people asked how my research was going instead of what the flavor of the
: day was! 

: Sometimes it seems like you can't be both feminine & a good scientist. I feel
: like I'm forced to choose between being a bitch or being a doormat. Lately, it
: depends on what day it is & how my work is going! I'm not sure if the answer is
: to play the non-feminine game that exist in so many places now, or to fight it
: day in & day out. I guess I choose which face I want to show depending on the
: situation & who is involved. I'm not saying it's the right thing - or it's the
: way to make people wake up to the problem - but sometimes it's the easiest way
: to do what I want to do (my science). 

: On the other line about having to shout above the sports games & such -
: I find that some men who are fanatics and really ridiculous about tv sports are
: those who must live their sports fantasies vicariously through the
: professionals. Others truly enjoy the games & unfortunately have no tolerance
: for others who don't like sports. But putting up w/ the rudeness of blaring
: games in the lab is ridiculous too. Buy them some headphones for christmas!!!

: Sorry this is incredibly long - and if you made it this far, you are a stronger
: woman than I!
: Robyn

: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Robyn Temple
: SUNY HSC at Brooklyn

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