Jokes about sexism

[dr._margaret_martens at FTDETRCK-CCMAIL.ARMY.MIL]

     The men I work with are always joking around with each other in this 
     way, putting each other down with jokes about age, baldness, lack of 
     prowess at golf, etc, etc, etc.  I think that this is just how some 
     men relate to each other.  So, by using these kinds of jokes they are 
     treating you like "one of the guys".  Retaliation in kind is certainly 
     appropriate.  This is not always the case, of course, and may also be 
     cultural.  I don't know, for example, if European men normally behave 
     this way.  Anyway, I think that the intent behind the jokes has to be 
     judged on a case-by-case basis.  If you know the person and how they 
     relate to other men and to women in general, you can usually tell if 
     the joke is meant to be offensive or not.
     
     Just my 2 cents.
     
     Margaret


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Jokes about sexism
Author:  Gert Jan Gast <gjgast at nioz.nl> at Internet-Mail
Date:    2/26/96 11:56


cruyff at ix.netcom.com(ED MCNALLY ) wrote:
>In <4gqka5$d46 at ursa.smsu.edu> rar453s at nic.smsu.edu (Ruhlen Rachel) 
>writes: 
>>
>>This isn't science-related, but I keep encountering this from people 
>who
>>are supposed to be professionals, and I find it annoying. 
>>
>>Occassionally someone says something along the lines of "Women should 
>bbe
>>inthe kitchen anyway," meaning it as a joke.  (Or, women aren't as 
>smart,
>>or some obviously sexist remark.)  I don't think it's funny, but I 
>usually
>>laugh anyway, or at least smile, to show that I understood it was 
>meant as
>>a joke.  
>>
>>What would be a better way to respond, without being rude? 
>>
     
>    I know I will probably get flamed for this response,
     
We are not complaining, are we?
     
> but I think
>this is their way of supporting you without directly saying so.
     
A woman who is told that she should be in the kitchen instead of 
the lab has to understand that as indirect support???? Are you 
serious??
     
> This
>is an uncomfortable issue because of the wide range of feelings >women 
>have about it.  
     
Sure, the problem is that women have such feelings. It's their 
problem that they are annoyed.
     
>They probably feel they shouldn't ignore the issue,
     
What's the real issue here?
     
> but
>don't want to directly say anything for fear of sounding >patronizing. 
     
They very much succeed in sounding patronizing.
     
>So they express themselves the way guys do: they make a joke.  
     
We can't think of equivalent jokes we heard between men. We don't 
think it is a pure joke either. Men who accept women as full 
partners have no reason to make such jokes. Men who have a 
problem with women beside or above them will. So there always is 
an underlying meaning. Women are very right not to appreciate 
that. Although very considerate of her we don't think Ruhlen 
should care too much about being rude, because that's precisely 
what the "jokes" are.
     
Cheers, Jeroen & GJ.
-- 
     
     
Gert Jan Gast <gjgast at NIOZ.NL>
Netherlands Institute for Sea Research 
Department of Marine Ecology
P.O. Box 59, 1790 AB Den Burg, The Netherlands. 
Phone: 31 (0)222 369573. Fax: 31 (0)222 319674.