multiple moves

DK dkat at
Fri Jun 14 00:05:40 EST 1996

>Date sent:        Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:12:41 -0700>
>To:               dkat at (DK)
>From:             eoshuster at (Beth Shuster)
>Subject:          Re: multiple moves

>Dear DK,

>  I'm sending this comment via direct e-mail in an effort to preserve
>(return to?) the civility normally present in this group.  While I agreed
>with most of your first post on Multiple moves (6/12, under the thread
>"creating a good climate for women" - there are good pedogogical reasons to
>move early in one's career, even if it is difficult), I take issue with the
>tenure of your reply to Susan Forsburg's reply to Sarah.  While Sarah is
>still in graduate school & obviously coming to terms with the various
>decisions (and sometimes, compromises) that need to be made while shaping
>one's career, Susan not only survived, but flourished, while completing
>graduate and post-doctoral work in very competitive labs at MIT and Oxford.
>She is currently running her own lab at the Salk and is quite grown up
>indeed! - not that any of us stop growing once we get a "real" job :-).

Personally I see growing up as an on going process.  Once you stop,
you are dead in one way or another.  

>  Please continue to make valuable comments that help and inform those in
>the early stages of this grand compilation of professions that we call
>science, without making gratuitously nasty comments on the side.

I like and take pride in being bitchy.  It has taken many years of
development and I hope not to lose it.  I would hope fellow females
would get the tongue in cheek or the rag and take it for what it is
worth.  It may be time to go back to the predominate male groups where
I can be myself.

>With sincerity,BethBeth ShusterUniv. of California, Daviseoshuster at

I have received several e-mails on this post which in itself I find
odd.  I assume we do want female presense on the net.  Why do all of
the females send me e-mail rather than post?  Why not get bitchy right
back.  If I am out of line, tell me so in public.  If you haven't
noticed recently, the nice guys are getting screwed.  It is time to
speak up and be noticed.   One email inspired me to moderate my tone
and be perhaps a bit more "feminine" and not be so bitchy but this one
(having been preceded by a similar one) has inspired me back into

If this is a nice soft, pink, touchy feely, support group and a
private club, tell me so. I will respect your territory and get out.
It is the only group I have found for female scientist but I can do
without it since I am only moderately sexist.   I will not stop being
what I am to fit your and anyone elses stereotype of a female. 

If I did not make myself clear before, I will say it again.  A woman
who has reached the level of education that she is in graduate school
should be intelligent enough, mature enough and independent enough
that she is able to take care of herself.  Making the assumption that
anyone is going to be given a job of one's choice is not something
that anyone at anytime that I know of has ever made.  How anyone could
ever come to the conclusion is beyond me.  My 17 year old son knows
better than this (I asked without any prompting if he thought he could
get a job anywhere he wanted - he responded that if he was great
enough, maybe).  

As I said in one Email I sent, the majority of the faculty in our area
are female.  All of them had to move to except the job.  All of them
are married and all of their husbands found jobs one way or the other
in the area within not a terrible length of time.  It wasn't easy.  No
one expected it to be.  I hear that the problem is that the students
don't have househusbands.  Who has the luxury now days? I don't even
think I know a housewife and they were a common species in the

Please do not e-mail me.  I consider that something for private
correspondence only (generally if I'm going to criticize someone I do
it in private - I did not consider my original post a criticism).  DK

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