ravena at cco.caltech.edu
Fri Jun 21 11:48:04 EST 1996
In article <4q6po1$duf at abel.cc.sunysb.edu>,
DK <dkat at psych1.psy.sunysb.edu> wrote:
>Yes! This is where I think women have a serious disadvantage.
>Particularly the young women who are very much interested in being
>liked and approved of by the men and hesitant to be labeled a "bitch"
>(either definition 1 or 2).
Yes, I have to agree with DK here, also. It seems very unfortunate
that what should be a noble and selfless desire on the part of women,
to be liked, to get along, etc., seems to sometimes make them their own
(and other women's) worst enemies.
>The most successful woman I know did not allow herself to be talked
>over but she was always polite, very professional, and competent in
>all ways. She thought highly of herself and of others. People would
>listen because she had good things to say.
This is great. I would say the same thing about my (female) thesis
advisor, who is highly successful. But it stresses me out trying to
emulate her. She has the perfect resume and a wonderful career. I
admire her, and I wish her nothing but the best.
It's hard, though, when one is only a mere mortal, to view
someone like her as a role model. It reminds me of the old adage that
whatever women do, they have to do twice as well as men to be
thought half as good.
I have seen many women in
>the business make it in one fashion or another but most of them simply
>did not know their own worth. If they became attached to a male
>student, they tended to value his work above their own even when it
>was often the case that they were doing much higher quality research.
Ugh. This is really maddening when it happens.
>I do believe that as women age they become less dependent upon the
>opinion of others but that may have to do with the security they have
>attained and it does not address or help this problem. How does my
>saying to a young woman that in twenty years she isn't going to fall
>over backwards to please someone going to help her now?
I agree this is a tough problem, but to befriend her and to TELL her
that she has worth may help her; maybe not immediately, but later, as
she thinks about it.
I know that the friendship and support of women (and some men) has
helped me in this regard, but gradually. Ten years ago when I was
an undergraduate I was pretty bad about the wanting to be liked and
needing male approval, and I've gotten better, not just because of
getting older, I think, but also because of having had the support
of good friends.
>will be kept and if you plagairize someone else's comments, you will
>be penalized! What very much needs to be done is to reach females in
>grade school on up and teach them that they are worthy on their own,
>not just as someones mate or daughter.
And how! You forgot "or mother."
I saw some literature from an organization recently called "Girls, Inc."
which had a "girls bill of rights," and one of those was that girls
have the "right to be themselves, people first and females second, and
the right to act in non-sex-stereotyped ways." I thought it was sad
that there are still enough people around who don't think this is
self-evident, such that there needs to be an organization to promote it.
Does anyone know anything about Girls Inc., what they do, and how
they are promoting this kind of idea?
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