baking & sports & frustration revisited

Tue Jan 7 13:57:00 EST 1997

wahchan wrote ....

A "scholarship in soccer"? That is a new one to me. I guess players like
Pele, Diego Maradonna and Paul Gasgoine (famouse soccer lout and wife beater)
would gets accepted for acedemic study in soccer (Pele maybe but the other
two I very much doubt and a good chance of failing like those 4 other men)
but I doubt very much. In fact many talented footballer dont do very well
acedemically yet their skill in the field is all they need, practice
and skill speaks for themselves. I have seen US style football and
also women's game on the international level, the US style is very much
similar to what the rest of the world was playing 40 years ago were the pace
of game is a hell of a lot slower, few close markings, plenty of open
spaces and more friendly (no dirty elbowing, pulling shirt, malicouse
wounding, play acting etc to name a few) in fact if the rest of the soccer
nations around the world had stuck to the same pattern of play in the US
like they were doing 40 years ago children as young as 12 yrs and adult as old
as 60 yrs would have been playing in the same team and women would have
competed with the men. If you look at Superbowl in the US this is a good
comparison to soccer in other countries.

<end part 1>

I'm certainly not going to waste this group's time & patience with a discussion
of soccer styles (european vs USA) but soccer scholarships are widespread at
MANY institutions in the USA. No one gets accepted for a academic study in
soccer - that's frivolous. What it IS is a way to get a little more tuition
money for college if you have the talent to play at college level. University of
North Carolina is a prime example of elite women's college soccer existing at a
very good school. Most women (and men) who play sports - or who participate in
some sort of team-oriented extracurricular activity - in college learn how to
manage time effectively, cooperate with others, and juggle many tasks at once.
The SUM of the skills learned in the athletic arenas can translate over into
professional life, if a person isn't stubborn enough to not see the parallels. I
find that the women carry these over more often than men. That's all I was
saying in that string.

If you want to compare academic scholarships, Division 1 football scholarships,
and soccer scholarships, I think you have your work cut out for you.

(wait, there's more....)

I cant really answer your above comments except to say a lots of what you said
that were critical about men in general is very much a minority case and
those critisicm can be easily have made equally against a "minority" of women
too. I know women who can manage and supervise a factory of men, maybe look
at the way you manage yourself rather than critisize others you find difficulty
to work with?


I was not talking about people I manage directly. In fact, these were people (5
men over 3 years) who were actually being managed by my very capable & talented
technician (female) who was only babysitting them as they took orders from my PI
(male). The students that I have managed directly quickly realized that I was
not going to do the 'stupid lab jobs' for them, because I politely told them up
front what their responsibilities were if they were going to work in this lab.
These are the same responsibilities that I myself have to follow because they
are my PI's rules (again, he's male, just in case you forgot). And these people
do what they are supposed to do, ask questions w/o fear of reprisals, and do
very good work. But the criticisms are there, even in large labs of men run by
women (I was in one for 8 months on a rotation). I am not only speaking from
personal experience, but anecdotally (sp?) as well. The examples were symptoms
of an attitude that isn't just a Brooklyn thing - and I was choosing humorous
everyday examples to illustrate the point. Apparently you just didn't get it. 

...and just for genetic clarity, the men in question were unrelated, not all
from Brooklyn, and from 22 - 40 years old. Two of which were med students (2nd &
3rd years), one is an MD, one a technician, and the other a grad student. 


Robyn Temple
SUNY HSC at Brooklyn

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