I am contiously amazed by this sort of occurrence. What amazes me is
the inaablit or more than likely unwillingness of the administration to
adequately provide satey measures for people working at nite. In
industry, we at least have the luxury of 24 hour protection thru a moe
than adequate security force.
In <199706050211.TAA24274 at rho.ben2.ucla.edu> megan at ucla.edu (Megan)
>>I have a few comments on the topic presented by Sally... some may not
>popular - here goes!
>At 10:36 AM 6/4/97 -0700, Sally Burns wrote:
>> Last fall I was working in the lab on a Sunday evening, and went
>>the womens restroom. I saw a man go around the corner of the stall to
>>back area of the restroom with a daybed. Thinking this guy just made
>>mistake and was embarrased, I yelled "this is the womens room" and
>>I returned several minutes later and knocked, asked if any one was
>>there--NO Answer. I entered the bathroom and looked and there was
>>guy sitting on the couch with his pants down!!! I yelled at him,
>>another lab worker and called security. Since then he has been
>>of a misdemeanor charge and had to get counseling.((WHICH is known
>>to work very well when compulsory)
>>>But you cannot know that it will not work with him until you give it a
>Would you rather no counseling was recommended? It *may* help - I
know of a
>person who was convicted of a much worse sexual crime than this,
>child, and the compulsory counseling helped him, he is now a
>member of society again. It may help, it will depend on how he feels
>his deviancy. If he views it as a problem, the counseling may help.
>does not want to change, the counseling will do nothing.
>>>This guy is a grad student and has an office and keys to one of the
>>biggest lab buildings on campus.
>> I have contacted his chair, the ombudsperson and others. I think he
>>should be restricted to daytime use of facilities where he poses less
>>a problem. His presence is a direct threat to womne grad students,
>>docs, faculty and others who use this building.
>>It does not sound as though he is violent - he may be repulsive and
>be offended by his clearly abberrant behavior, but I am not surprised
>the university cannot or will not restrict his presence to nighttime.
>of all, they cannot physically restrain him, unless he is restrained
>judge. and if he has keys, who is going to follow him around and
>his coming and leaving? This is clearly a nonviable option. This
>mean that i do not sympathize with you, but they cannot legally do
>him, and it is not enforceable.
>>> Frankly I think he should be thrown out! He ceratinly should not
>>an assistanship. and the least would be to have his keys taken away
>>that he is restricted to daytime use of the facilities! I think the
>>university is endangering other women, allowing a hostile environment
>>How does his deviancy affect his assistantship? Would you say the
same of a
>person who had committed theft? Armed assault? Breaking and
>Murder? It is not legal for the university to restirict his access to
>facilities. Unfortunate, but until he actually injures someone (and
>hopefully he never will!!) they are not permitted to do anything like
>>> As a woman grad student I have had to go in and out of these labs
>>late at night.
>>As a male grad student, so does he. doesnt make it any better, but he
>have a right to be there. he does not have a right to behave lewdly.
>>It is bad enough that the U has giant bushes to walk
>>past on the way to your car ((assuming you have one)). It is
>>to me that a known perp is allowed privelidges.
>>He is still a graduate student at the university - and until he is
>out, if that ever happens, he will have priveledges. The university
>have a lawsuit of immense proportions if they tried to restict his
>the equipment required for him to complete his degree - just as they
>if they tried to restict your access to said equipment. That does not
>it right, or comfortable for you, but it is a fact.
>> I believe I have the right to a safe workplace. It is not possible
>>do graduate work in the science without working nights and weekends
>>the lab. I do not want to share space with a known sexual
>>This limits my ability to focus on my work.
>>There are *lots* of sexual perpetrators out there, probably all of us
>one or two, we just dont know their history. Most of them you would
>>>Beyond this individual pig there is an issue of the U's silence and
>> I have been told and I believe that some dept chairs would get rid
>>this guy ASAP. There are still to many good old boys and IT Should
>>Be Up to the Chair! (and dont we know its a chairMAN)
>>I agree. I am surprised, since this occured on university property,
>there is not some panel which would handle something like this, like
>ombudsman, or a vice chancellor of some sort... I think at UCLA this
>be handled by the same group who handles cheating, but i dont know.
>out how they handle this kind of behavior in the dorms - there must
>been something like it at the dorms on campus, at some time.
>sort of sanctions could be placed on him to prevent his doing it
>punishment of some sort from the University if he does. I doubt this
>be removal from the uni, but there are a variety of other forms of
>which could be threatened - especially if he continues to do this.
>>> The university has no policy on this type of thing, to inform the
>>students chair, co-workers, etc, it has no suspension policy or
>>else. If I hadnt contactedd the guys dept, no one would have known...
>>have a big university police dept,they dont do anything but arrest
>> I have asked what type of crime a student would have to commit for
>>automatic response of the university to kick in. There has been no
>>I have heard of students stealing private (on-campus) and university
>property and not getting expelled - they were put through the criminal
>system. I suspect this crime will not result in his being removed
>>> I have heard alot about the perp's rights. Maybe the U is afraid he
>>would sue them if his career path was disrupted. I wonder where the
>>legal rights of women to a hazard free workspace are. Maybe that only
>>includes hazardous buildings and equiptment...maybe perpetrator men
>>just considered to be a hazard no one can do anything about.
>>again, it sounds to me like he was exposing himself, generally people
>are into that are not violent, though of course there are always
>You could look into the option of a lawsuit if they do not deal with
>person in someway - if your uni has a law school, see if they have a
>Legal Services office.
>>>The university I am at has made a big deal of having the only
>>sponsered battered womens sheltor, called SAFEPLACE. It is sad that
>>safeplace is restricted to one shelter!
>>and unfortunate that you cannot move your lab equipment there to work
>night!! Or better yet, make him move his somewhere at night.
>>> I have been a reader of this newsgroup for a long time and hope
>>someone will have ideas. I am curious what sort of policy (or lack of
>>policy) exists in other places. Thanks for a space to rant and get
>>support.(((another alternative to crying or breaking something)
>>I would seriously recommend that you get some mace or pepper spray.
>see him in the womens room again, use it on him, and target the
>bits he is exposing, if possible... That may do more than the
>any threats from the university.
>>>>burnssal at pilot.msu.edu>I am really sorry that you are being put in this unfortunate situation
>this creep. It is a scary situation, but I suspect you are not in
>danger by this jerk. I would be angry about the lack of interest
>the university, but i would be very surprised if there was a whole lot
>could do about it.