Looking for supplier


Sat Oct 30 09:18:00 EST 2004


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Rebecca,

You should note from the label that the "Larval Diet" product contains
fish oil and mineral pre-mixes.  The fish oil contains omega-3
polly-unsaturated fatty acids which will auto-oxidize in air into some
really nasty products. The mineral mixes work as catalysts for this
reaction.  I am not sure you can put in enough preservatives to hold the
diet together for 12 mo.  Normal preservative concentrations only result
in 3 mo diet stability with these ingredients.  Oxidation of vitamin C is
another problem in many diets (required nutrient for almost all fish
species -- probably also for zebrafish?).

You also have the leaching problem with dry diets, where water soluble
nutrients leave the diet on a time scale related to t=K D^2 (for a 1 mm
particle, the time scale in on the order of 1 minute)- (C= Co e (-kt/x^2)
type function for long times).  For a 100µ type diet, the kinetics for
diffusion of water soluble components is only a second or so from the time
the particle is wetted.

Note that Aquatic Habitats is a subsidiary of Aquatic Ecosystems, which is
a major supplier to aquaculture.   Note that "Larval Diet" has not taken
over the several hundred million dollar market for commercial larval
diets.  I have never seen any real science or testing relative to this
product and Aquatic Ecosystems doesn't have internal capacity to do any
real diet testing.


Keep the larval density low enough and you can feed them cow manure and
let a natural microbiological ecology do the rest.  Putting stripped bass
larva in a pond at about 20-50 larva/m2 of surface area in a pond with
manure is micro-biologically similar to 5 zebra larva in a 2.7 L AH tank
being fed any dry diet.

Under optimal nutritional conditions, it should only take 3 days of good
feed for a larva to be large enough to eat artemia, not 10 days.

Dallas
-- 
Dallas E. Weaver, Ph.D.
Scientific Hatcheries
5542 Engineer Dr.
Huntington Beach, Ca 92649
deweaver at surfcity.net
http://www.ScientificHatcheries.com



PS: I became sensitive to this age of diet question when I obtained some
old diet from Puerna that cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars before
I figured out what happened (they don't have public age dates on their
products)-- distributor not rotating their product properly.  A dry diet
without a date shouldn't be used.  It usually doesn't kill the fish, but
you just bounce from one problem to another ranging from low fecundity,
low fertility, poor survival, slow growth, poor food conversion (FCR),
disease susceptibility, etc.




in article clu1d6$rdd$1 at mercury.rfcgr.mrc.ac.uk, Burdine, Rebecca at
RBurdine at molbio.Princeton.EDU wrote on 10/29/04 11:16 AM:

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> For another alternative to Biokyowa, Aquatic Habitats sells a powdered
food called "Larval Diet".  The ordering information is #LD100 for a
500gram can for $20.25.  It has a 12 month shelf life.
>
> We tested this side by side with Biokyowa in our facility and had
essentially identical success rates for raising fish. We will likely
switch to this once we run out of Biokyowa.
>
> The powder consists of " a highly-digestible mixture of marine and
animal proteins, vegetable protein, yeast, vegetable starches, fish and
vegetable oils, vitamin and mineral pre-mixes, pigments, antioxidants,
and biodegradable binders."
>
>
> Our protocol consists of starting larva on powdered food twice a day
starting on day 5 to day 7.  We switch to artemia on day 15.  We
typically have 80-90% survival rates, but this depends on the line of
fish.  A good healthy wildtype strain will give us close to 100%
survivability.
>
> In our hands, the one things that improves survival rate reliably is
cleaning out uneaten food every feeding to keep the water quality high.
>
> If you have any other questions about Larval Diet, I'd be happy to give
you our experience with the food so far.
>
> Cheers,
> Becky
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Rebecca Burdine, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Molecular Biology
> Washington Road
> Princeton University
> Princeton, NJ 08544
>
> Ph  (609) 258-7515
> Fax (609) 258-6730
> e-mail: rburdine at molbio.princeton.edu
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zbrafish at hgmp.mrc.ac.uk
> [mailto:owner-zbrafish at hgmp.mrc.ac.uk]On Behalf Of ""
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 7:52 AM
> To: zbrafish at net.bio.net
> Subject: Re: Looking for supplier
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Peter,
>
> It is interesting that the ZM web site states that their diets are good
for 6 to 9 months when most of the high quality commercial aquaculture
diets seem to be 3 months shelf life.  Notice, they also recommend
rotifers for the first 10 days.
>
> I also find it interesting that zebra fish are a major research animal
where the NIH and others are spending a lot of money on research and
there is no basic dietary information.  We know far more about the
dietary requirements of all aquaculture species and most "want to be"
aquaculture species.
>
> Everyone is making an assumption that the dietary history of the animal
won't impact the research results.  However, we do know that diet does
impact fecundity, fertility and larva viability on zebra fish. just like
other species of fish/shrimp.
>
> I know my diets for zebra fish are an educated guess at the nutritional
requirements and not optimal, just workable.  I do know that diets age
will impact fertility and that leutine pigment in the diet will make the
males easier to sex (yellow fins).
>
> If you do a literature search on zebra nutrition, about the only
relevant things you come up with is some work on Boron and the work by
Landon on larval diets.  This is relative to journals devoted to
fish/shrimp nutrition for all other species.
>
> I believe that it is time for NIH to step up and fund some actual
nutritional research on this animal.  There are a lot of good
aquaculture nutritional researchers who have worked out the details on
other species that could do the job, but they are part of aquaculture
research not normal NIH researchers.
>
>
> Dallas
>
> in article clk6mm$nm2$1 at mercury.rfcgr.mrc.ac.uk, Peter Cattin at
p.cattin at auckland.ac.nz wrote on 10/25/04 5:45 PM:
>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>> Hi Sharon,
>>>
>>> I have spent a lot of time reviewing feeds over the past 6 years.  I
>> have not been able to source feed from BioKyowa for a number of years
> but a better alternative is ZM Ltd in the UK who make a feed
>> specifically for zebrafish.  Their website is www.zmsystems.demon.co.uk
> .  Speak to Rohan there and I am sure you will be pleased with the
product.  You will need
>> ZM
>>> 200 and 300 for the juveniles and adults respectively and ZM 000 for the
>> fry.  Artemia International at www.artemia-international.com/ is
> excellent as a source  of Artemia.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Peter
>>> Cattin, Peter PhD
>>> School of Biological Sciences
>>> The University of Auckland
>>> New Zealand
>>> phone: +64-9-373-7599 xtn 87119
>>> fax: +64-9-373-7417
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sharon Amacher" <amacher at berkeley.edu>
>>> Newsgroups: bionet.organisms.zebrafish
>>> To: <>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 6:09 AM
>>> Subject: Looking for supplier
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Dear Zebrafish community,
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for a supplier of BioKyowa Fry Food (or an alternative
>> dry
>>>> food) to supplement the diet of our baby fish. BioKyowa, Inc. in
>> Missouri
>>>> is not longer selling this food (or is out of business).  Thanks in
>> advice
>>>> for any help and advice.
>>>>
>>>> Sharon Amacher
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ***********************************************
>>>> Sharon L. Amacher
>>>> Assistant Professor of Genetics and Development
>>>> Department of Molecular and Cell Biology
>>>> 555 Life Sciences Addition #3200
>>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>>> Berkeley, CA  94720-3200
>>>>
>>>> Office: (510) 643-1608
>>>> Lab:    (510) 643-1737
>>>> FAX: (510) 642-0355
>>>> amacher at berkeley.edu (NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>
> ---
> ---
>

---




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