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<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "> Dany:<div>I have a couple of suggestions, all of which I have done in various similar situations. Fortunately, we have a vet and an IACUC who are not prone to mindless obedience to rules made for other animals. </div><div>1. Convince your Veterinarian/IACUC that their request for a "certificate" may be routine for mammals but is wildly inappropriate for fish. Many labs routinely send and accept strains from multiple labs, oftentimes on short notice, long after the animal care protocol is approved. I have sent fish many times to other labs, if one of them asked me for a "certificate", I wouldn't know what to do.</div><div>2. Designate your tanks as "quarantine tanks", in which any disease will be carefully monitored and treated.</div><div>3. Designate your tanks as decorative tanks. When I wanted to look at cichlid embryos, I asked our vet if I could house cichlids in tanks in my office or lab (I was terrified of introducing disease into our main fish room, even in the Q rack). He told me that tanks of pet fish are not under the jurisdiction of IACUC, even if those fish produce embryos. I believe that embryos are also not under the jurisdiction of IACUC (chickens are not considered "vertebrate animals" until hatching). </div><div>4. Forget to tell them where you got the fish. </div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Stephen</div><div><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">-----------------------</span></span></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">Stephen H. Devoto, Associate Professor</span></span></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">Biology, Neuroscience and Behavior</span></span></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">Wesleyan University, Middletown, CT 06459</span></span></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">office: (860) 685-3461</span></span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; white-space: pre; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; white-space: pre; "> </span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; ">Lab: (860) 685-3206</span></span></div><div style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; "><a href="http://sdevoto.web.wesleyan.edu">http://sdevoto.web.wesleyan.edu</a></span></span></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br><div><div>On 20 Jun, 2008, at 13:05, <a href="mailto:zbrafish-request@oat.bio.indiana.edu">zbrafish-request@oat.bio.indiana.edu</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Send Zbrafish mailing list submissions to</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="mailto:zbrafish@net.bio.net">zbrafish@net.bio.net</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/zbrafish">http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/zbrafish</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="mailto:zbrafish-request@net.bio.net">zbrafish-request@net.bio.net</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">You can reach the person managing the list at</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="mailto:zbrafish-owner@net.bio.net">zbrafish-owner@net.bio.net</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">than "Re: Contents of Zbrafish digest..."</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Today's Topics:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>1. IACUC approval for commercial vendors (DSA)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">----------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Message: 1</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:58:46 -0700 (PDT)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: DSA <<a href="mailto:danyadams@comcast.net">danyadams@comcast.net</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: [Zbrafish] IACUC approval for commercial vendors</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: <a href="mailto:bionet-organisms-zebrafish@moderators.isc.org">bionet-organisms-zebrafish@moderators.isc.org</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Message-ID:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><<a href="mailto:e88026ac-ec20-4c4b-98f7-dca5314cf124@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com">e88026ac-ec20-4c4b-98f7-dca5314cf124@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com</a>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi all, especially those of you with insight into veterinarians.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I have an approved protocol to work with fish embryos; my</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"colony" (school ?) of fish consists of two ten gallon tanks with</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">filters etc, about 20 fish, and it is in my lab, not the animal</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">quarters.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>In that protocol I listed ZIRC as the source of the</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">adults.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I have found, however, that my local Petco sells perfectly</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">healthy fish for about $1 each, and shopping there has the advantage</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">that I can pick out big fat females and good looking males, and I</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">don't have to buy in pairs.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Here's the but - Petco is not an "approved vendor" and the vet on my</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">IACUC committee (on which, by the way, I serve as the fish & amphibian</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">expert) has put a hold on my purchasing of new fish until I can get</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">some kind of health certificate.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Has anyone figured out a workaround for this problem ?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I'm trying to</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">get in contact with the store manager, but it's a Petco for pete's</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">sake - what is the likelihood that they will have the kind of</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">documentation needed for an IACUC committee composed almost entirely</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of mouse people ?</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Does anyone else just use pet store wildtypes ?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Am I making a huge</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">mistake by doing that ?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(I don't do any genetics, so I don't need</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">lines).</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Any wisdom or practical advice will be very welcome.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">------------------------------</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Zbrafish mailing list</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:Zbrafish@net.bio.net">Zbrafish@net.bio.net</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/zbrafish">http://www.bio.net/biomail/listinfo/zbrafish</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">End of Zbrafish Digest, Vol 37, Issue 10</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">****************************************</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>

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