hi david, you wrote
>>In article <3r3u39$3h7 at jhunix1.hcf.jhu.edu> Ephraim Fuchs,
>>ejf at welchlink.uoregon.edu writes:
>>So once again I ask, How do T cells distinguish foreign antigens from
>>idiotypes presented by B cells? Why should the former activate and the
>>latter not?
>DANGER DANGER .
>Since you originally described this phenomena I believe you have thought
>of this. I assume you believe that the B cell idiotype specific T cells
>have been deleted/anergized prior to infection and therefore do not
>react. But in an active infection when you have DANGER you also have a
>huge amount of B cell somatic mutation generating new idiotypic peptides
>in a proper mileu. Why do these not induce T cell response, or do they?
to induce somatic mutation you must have reactive bcells, with
-therefore- a reactive receptor (even if just crossreactive) which could
_then_ (upon expansion) be somatically mutated. so, if they are deleted, no
specific bcells. although, there are probably crossreactive receptors out
there. this is a good point, though, echoing the point i made about the new
theory several posts ago. how could a proper, helpful, response to gram -
bacteria be made without t cell help, since lps causes a non-specific
polyclonal b cell activation. not specific. there is not somatic mutation
without t cell help. i beleive that dr fuchs described the response to gram
- bacteria as b cell only. no tcells. ohwell.
regards ralph
Ralph M. Bernstein
Dept of Micro/Immuno
University of Arizona
Ph: 602 626 2585
Fx: 602 626 2100
