segall at minera.cis.yale.edu (Seth Segall)
gvincente at aol.com (Ginny Vincent)
AUSU44 at prodigy.com (Maryka Ford, CFS Support Group Leader)
??? cfs-news at cais.cais.com ??? (Roger Burns, moderator
CFS-L/alt.med.cfs)
74462.441 at cis.com (Peter Barach, Ph.D., ISSD's member rep.-at-large)
72303.1236 at cis.com (Edward D. Isenberg, CF/CFIDS/ME/FMS Section
Facilitator)
(Note to Edward D. Isenberg - please forward this entire message to Linda
J. Hill, LCSW, BCD, Diabetes Section Facilitator at Compuserve and an ISSD
member. Thanks, Pat.)
I will attempt to forward the attached messages that originated in the
alt.support.dissociation newsgroup. I'm very interested in someone or
some agency doing empirical research on the concurrence of chronic fatigue
syndrome (CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), and other related pain and fatigue
syndromes and significant TRAUMA, especially child abuse. And, yes,
if a person has CFS or FM/etc. they will present as depressed. If anyone
can provide Seth Segall (segall at minerva.cis.yale.edu) information in this
regard, please do so, as well as post this information in appropriate
newsgroups. I will also attempt to post this in the following newsgroups:
bionet.neuroscience, sci.med.psychobioligy, &
sci.psychology.research. Of course, you may e-mail me, too
(McClendon at aol.com).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Subject: Re: constant pain
Date: 95-03-03 20:14:27 EST
From: segall at minerva.cis.yale.edu (Seth Segall)
To: mcclendon at aol.com (McClendon)
CC: segall at minerva.cis.yale.edu
In article <3j3o5n$nij at newsbf02.news.aol.com> mcclendon at aol.com
(McClendon)
writes:
>From: mcclendon at aol.com (McClendon)
>Subject: Re: constant pain
>Date: 2 Mar 1995 01:21:43 -0500
>You might want to read chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) & fibromylagia (FM)
>newsgroups posts, then final a qualified doctor...CFS & FM national
>organizations can recommend doctors in your area who are familiar with
>these two overlapping conditions. Unfortunately, people are relucant to
>see that there is an obvious connection between significant trauma
>(especially if it is child abuse) and CFS & FM. They are more willing to
>say, "Yes, the terrible car accident `triggered' your CFS or FM.
>Take care, Patricia D. McClendon, MSSW, CSW (McClendon at aol.com)
I have been impressed with the coexistence of psychological
trauma/dissociative disorders in my patients with fibromyalgia and other
chronic pain disorders such as reflex sympathetic dystrophy. I have not
come
across any published research on this topic, however, and had been
thinking
of perhaps doing some on my own with some local orthopedists. Are you
aware of any research that has been published on this subject?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Fibromyalgia & trauma
Date: 95-03-05 01:48:17 EST
From: McClendon
To: segall at minerva.cis.yale.edu(sethsegall)
Many trauma survivors meet DSM-IV critera for PSTD and/or dissociative
disorders. Many also are diagnosed as having somatoform conditions which
in
my mind are conditions like fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome,
irritable
bowel syndrome, pain disorders, etc., etc. It's only normal to have
physical
symptoms after enduring significant trauma because the trauma, I believe,
permanently alters the survivors' neurochemistries. To me, somatic
memories
or "body memories" are part of our complicated (see Bennett G. Braun's
"The
BASK model of Dissociation - Part 1 & 2 in the journal DISSOCIATION, March
&
June 1988, Vol1. No. 1 &2) neuropsychophysiologic(NPP) state-dependent
memory(SDM)... thus the symptoms "reappear" on anniversary dates, i.e.
Halloween, because there are enough environmental cues to stimulated
NPP-SDM. I believe the incident of somatoform disorders is around 70-80%
in
the DID (or MPD) literature...it would probably be 100% but many doctors
aren't good listeners and many patients were discouraged from early
childhood
from discussing their pains (they did not count).
"Long-standing somatic symptoms often reflect deeply dissociated
visceral memories of traumas, long-standing interpersonality conflicts,
and
chronic sel-destructive behavior." (Frank W. Putnam, 1989, Diagnosis &
Treatment of MPD, p.293). I agree with the first part of the sentence,
but
since trust is so damaged, mutual loving relationship are difficult for
many
survivors, then the last part goes like this...I was a bad little girl (or
boy) that why daddy hurt me and the reason I have fibromyalgia is because
I
am bad and should hurt...and if that doesn't cause enough pain, I must
inflict it, so I can finally be punished enough for being bad...then I can
have a "good" time until the next time.
I would imagine that you would find raging workaholic suffering with
fibromyalgia and the like....because, they can never do enough to erase
their
badness, so they push their bodies past the limits. Likewise for the
chronic
fatiguers. I think the hyperviligance of trauma survivors can be
emotionally
and physically exhausting, they are never safe, never accomplished enough,
etc.
In an article entitled, "The Dissociative Disorders Interview
Schedule:
A Structured Interview" by Colin A. Ross, Sharon Heber, + 4 others in
DISSOCIATION (Vol.II, No. 3, Sept., 1989, pp. 169-189), 102 subjects (who
had
received dx of MPD) were given this "interview"...94.1% MPD, 91.2% Major
depressive episode, 63.7% BPD, and 60.8 % Somatization disorder.
Subjects
were asked if they had:headaches, abdomial pain, nausea, back pain,
shortness
of breath , dizziness, vision problems, paralysis or weak muscles, etc.,
etc. The "kicker" of this interview is: a) no physical disorder has been
found... therefore the subjects get the Somatization dx, aka "It's all in
your head! That's because doctors don't recognize fibromyalgia & the
like,
because they can't quantify it through diagnostic tests, i.e., high WBCs,
etc. They just haven't developed the "right" test, yet!
With all that said, good psychotherapy can "alter" the brain's
neurochemistry... desensitize "triggers" and change the a person's way of
responsing to a trigger, etc. It ain't all in the body, but it sure ain't
all in the head!" (It = physical & emotional symptoms). Now, what was the
question? I'm kidding. You can write ISSD (Int'l. Soc. for the Study of
Dissociation) at 5700 Old Orchard Road, 1st floor, Skokie, IL 60077-1057
or
call 1- 708-966-4322to request reprints of their articles. Peter Barach,
PhD, is on Compuserve (74462.441 at cis) and is the "member
representative-at-large", so he has excellent "contacts". Regards, and do
let me hear the results of this "ground-breaking" research. I'd like the
medical establishment to get away from Somatization dxes, in favor of
trauma-related dxes.
Patricia D. McClendon, MSSW, CSW (McClendon at aol.com)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: I posted this above response on: alt.med.cfs,
alt.support.dissociation, alt.sci.sociology, and the newsgroups entitled
The Disease Fibromyalgia and Neuro-Linguistic Programming. Where I got
this reply...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: trauma vs. somatization dxes
Date: 95-03-05 08:53:02 EST
From: gvincente at aol.com
Reply-to: gvincente at aol.com (GVincente)
To: mcclendon at aol.com (McClendon)
So true. The bidirectionality of physiological processes is still in the
infant stages of discovery and understanding. It wasn't until recently
that immunologists decided that the immune system was not autonomous. And
do you notice which gender gets labled "somatizied" most often. Trauma
related diagnoses are needed and the DSM-IV has fallen seriously short.
Have you taken a look at the task force and work group names? There's one
women on the Psychiatric systems interface group....perhaps the DSM-IV
would have been more balanced if the tasks groups were, and perhaps not.
Thank you for you insightful monologue.
Ginny Vincent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone have any ideas about starting a newsgroup that would
cover
the above discussion? Maybe we could start one?
Regards, Patricia McClendon, MSSW, CSW (Louisville, KY USA)
and a member of ISSD since 1988.
