> I did not say that all creativity arises out of depression
I did not say that you did. I was responding to the discussion as a whole,
and providing my take on the idea that there could be an inherent, rather
than a developed, tie between depression and creativity, and responding to
the provision of statistics regarding depressed artistic types. Some people
do believe that all creative people are depressed, etc., and that either
depression causes artisitic tendencies or the other way around. I thought
this was a broadish discussion of the concept, that's why I posted genarally
at the top rather than doing a point-by-point take on any individual post.
>and the fact that
> your depression vanished means I wouldn't classify you as a depressive in
> the chronic sense, whereas most creatively depressed people do suffer it
in
> the chronic sense.
I didn't say it vanished. I said I had _problems_ with it until I met my
husband. I can handle it now, now that the universe contains one absolute
certainty, and that certainty is that I'll never be alone again... not in
the "nobody loves me, nobody cares" sense, anyway: he could _die_, powers
forbid, but that couldn't take away the love and acceptance that is now an
inherent part of my world. But no, the problem is not _gone_. I still get
overwhelmed by a bleak certainty that nothing anyone works for is ever going
to be worth anything in the end, that the human race will never cease to be
overall cruel and stupid and misguided, that the planet is going to die,
that the universe is a great weight that must be fought, and that nobody
(with one, eternal exception--that's the point, here) cares one whit about
me or anything I do. I still sit, head in arms, in a depressed rage about
something, crying out, "Well, nothing really matters anyway, what's it
matter, everything's useless!" But it's not useless anymore and there will
always be one thing that matters, and to whom I matter, so how can I, being
an intelligent person, not respond to that? I just can't take it (the
depression) _personally_ since finding that truly rare thing, another human
being who makes it all worth it. I want to cry all day sometimes because of
the creeping, bleak hopelessness that I have always called my "biological"
depression... but I don't. I can recognize it for what it is now, now that
the world is composed of something else for me, and I can, to some degree,
ignore it, rather like I can ignore the pain in my arms, which have hurt
intensively and been a severe limitation for a year now due to RSI acquired
at a rough job. I still _have_ a depression; I just have things in my life
now that make living my life too important to let it get me down that I'm
down, if you see what I mean. I see it as an undertow, something that might
come and try to drag me down; it is no longer an overwhelming flowering of
total hopelessness from within my soul, because the center of my emotional
life, my soul if you will, has been taken over by something that causes me
joy, and is too unassailably and indisputably wonderful to be shifted by
anything as trivial as any other emotion. Call it a miracle; I do.
> Alienation will cause depression, being a freak I can assure you of that.
Well, yes, of course it will. I guess my point in the first post was
basically that any group statistically consistently alienated would be bound
to show a statistical tendency to depression. It didn't help that I was
bisexual, too (well, still am, but of course I no longer have any urge to do
anything about it. Well, I look, OK?); even in California that was just
another reason to bash the redheaded book freak.
> By the way, I like Sci-Fi and fantasy, how about a title?
> John H.
Unfortunately, my first novel is still under consideration--wish me
luck!--and the stories aren't out there yet either. As soon as something is
published, I'll post a self-congratulatory message on the right newsgroups,
like sf.composition... hey, I will have an excuse to post here too, if the
book is published, because it's very much about hypothetical advances in
neuroscience! It would almost not be off-topic.... There's some of my art up
at www.xs4all.nl/~cooper17/katrina/gallery.htm , but bear in mind that
within a week the site will have undergone a TOTAL revamp, and will also
contain the two pictures I just had published in Valkyrie #18 (British
role-playing mag, but one of the pictures was for an SF story).
--Katrina
>>>>> Etaoin Shrdlu <cooper17.spamless at xs4all.nl> wrote in message
> news:8a11p4$9d8$2 at news1.xs4all.nl...> > In response to the below: as a writer, painter, illustrator, and
sculptor
> > myself, with a high relative IQ and depression problems until I met my
> > husband, I would like to say that I do not feel that my creativity is a
> > result of or a cause of the depression; rather, the depression (strong,
> > chronic, and nearly crippling when I was an adolescent) seems to have
come
> > from having to live in a world in which only a very, very few people
were
> at
> > all on my wavelength or appreciated my talents as more than a handy way
to
> > eventually make money. I was always surrounded by people who asked why I
> > wouldn't just do the art other people liked, why I wrote about "weird
> > stuff", why I wasn't able to sink myself into the rote-learning,
> > find-a-job-in-a-bank culture I was expected to fit into. Even people who
> > truly appreciated my art _artistically_ couldn't understand it as a
> passion,
> > couldn't understand why I can't "give it up for a good job", and so
tended
> > to treat me as frivolous, obsessed. When I explained that I would rather
> go
> > deaf than forget how to draw, people thought I was mad. It seems to me
> > likely that every exceptionally talented creative person of high
> > intelligence throughout history would have had to go through something
> like
> > this, often under much heavier restrictions/opprobrium than I had to
face
> > (and, true, often under less; I live in the Netherlands now, and had I
> grown
> > up here, these things would have been nurtured... but I still wouldn't
> have
> > had a large social group or been understood by a great many people). Why
> > shouldn't this group show a statistical tendency to depression? You try
> > going home to tell your parents you're going to be a science fiction
> writer.
> > --Katrina
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Where on earth did you get this gem from? Depression results in
> people
> > > not
> > > > getting enjoyment out of life, not feeling motivated to do things
they
> > > > normally would, sleeping differently to normal (more or less) and
> > thinking
> > > > of suicide. At no point in DSM does it say that depressed people
are
> > more
> > > > likely to write a symphony!
> > >
> > > Did the people writing the DSM ever bother to look? Psychology amazes
me
> > in
> > > that so many always assume a pathology is irrevocably and globally
> > damaging
> > > to cognitive functions as a whole. Think of idiot savants. What is the
> > DSM?
> > > A bible or something? Please, that's scholasticism to the core.
> > >
> > > There are studies indicating that writers as a group are inclined
> towards
> > > dysthmia\depression and I've read enough biographies to know that
> > something
> > > is going on there. When Tschaikovsky wrote his 6th, his best and a
> > > monumental piece, he was on a train and tears flooded out of him while
> > > writing it. The 6th is mostly very sad (only 3rd movement rips along).
I
> > > prefer his Serenade for Strings and Italian Capricanno (spelling!) He
> got
> > > depressed quite a bit, long story ... .
> > >
> > > Other side: Ludwig Boltzmann, great 19th century physicist, committed
> > > suicide mid 50's - probably mild manic depressive. Mathematicians,
> strange
> > > bunch, obsessive-compulsive leanings? Go ask Godel, brilliant but
kooky.
> > > Paul Erdos, brilliant mathematician, spent last 15-20 years using
> > > amphetamines, once quoted as saying Coffee + human beings =
mathematics.
> > > Sound healthy? Is that in the DSM?
> > >
> > > Yes, sws is changed during depression, may be related to phase changes
> in
> > > cortisol
> > > levels during sleep. There is no "ideal" brain state for optimal
> cognitive
> > > functionality. The great Irish mathematician Hamilton died of
alcoholism
> > and
> > > malnutrition in his early 40's and was doing great work until bango
> dead.
> > > You won't find that in the DSM.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > > I was referring to seasonal affective disorder, a condition more
> > > frequent
> > > > > (?) in North European climates. The inescapable electric shock
> > > > demonstrates
> > > > > my point. In the face of danger that cannot be challenged, the
best
> > > > survival
> > > > > is to hide.
> > > >
> > > > What has this got to do with helplessness? When a rat is given
> > > > uncontrollable electric shocks, it cannot subsequently learn to make
> an
> > > > action which will reduce the probability of a shock. In what way is
> > this
> > > > adaptive? Strangely enough, theres more seasonal effective disorder
> > when
> > > > there is less sunlight in the winter months - hence Northern
European
> > > (don't
> > > > know the stats for Canada - I presume they have the same problem?)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>>
