I am top-posting because I only have a comment or two.
One - Bravo, well said, and
Two - The Catholic Church did, in fact, steal our holidays and rituals. I
will expand in alt.religion.wicca if you'd like to know more.
The Shadow Dancer
"Joseph A Nagy Jr" <pagan_prince at bigfire-hsv.org> wrote in message
news:3D4EAEED.6080709 at bigfire-hsv.org...
> Richard C. August wrote:
> > Dear Parse Tree,
> >
> > Is our morality based on fear when The Holy Bible says in 2 Timothy 1:7,
> >
> > 7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of
love,
> > and of a sound mind.
> >
> > and in Psalm 91,
> >
> > 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide
> > under the shadow of the Almighty. 2 I will say of the LORD, [He is] my
> > refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. 3 Surely he shall
> > deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, [and] from the noisome
> > pestilence. 4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his
wings
> > shalt thou trust: his truth [shall be thy] shield and buckler. 5 Thou
> > shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; [nor] for the arrow [that]
> > flieth by day; 6 [Nor] for the pestilence [that] walketh in darkness;
> > [nor] for the destruction [that] wasteth at noonday. 7 A thousand
shall
> > fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; [but] it shall not
> > come nigh thee. 8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the
> > reward of the wicked. 9 Because thou hast made the LORD, [which is] my
> > refuge, [even] the most High, thy habitation; 10 There shall no evil
> > befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. 11 For
he
> > shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12
> > They shall bear thee up in [their] hands, lest thou dash thy foot
against a
> > stone. 13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and
the
> > dragon shalt thou trample under feet. 14 Because he hath set his love
upon
> > me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he
hath
> > known my name. 15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I
[will
> > be] with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. 16 With
long
> > life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
> >
> > Dear Parse Tree, God's promise of Divine Protection, and His promise of
> > deliverance into Heaven when we Christians pass from this earth, is NOT
> > based on fear AT ALL. Though the Bible is replete with warnings against
> > hell if we disobey God in sin, God warns us against hell because He
loves us
> > and wants to be UNITED with His creation.
> >
> > Does a fearful soul trample a young lion and a dragon under his feet?
Does
> > a courageous soul walk around nervously and make crazy decisions based
on a
> > schizophrenic mind? Does a person not of sound mind become fearless and
> > even kind to others?
> >
> > For you to say that both Wicca and Christianity are so interchangeable,
and
> > that all you need to do is switch icons and candles to change from one
to
> > the other, is truly despicable blasphemy. I pray that Christ would by
the
> > power of the Holy Ghost, Word and Sacrament, and Baptism, deliver you
from
> > such heresy. How many witches/sorcerers/wizards have you seen go
completely
> > insane because they could no longer control the demons who were their
> > guides? How many devout Christians have you seen go insane because they
> > could no longer control Christ, who is our Healer and Shepherd? I
praise
> > God that because of my baptism in Christ Jesus, I am mentally and
> > spiritually much better than I was, due to God's protecting me from the
> > things that once made me crazy.
> >
> > Consider what you say, Parse Tree, because God never gives a spirit of
> > uncontrolled phobia, as you say.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> >
> > Richard C. August
> <snip>
>> You could not be more wrong. In both Wicca and Christianity, all that is
> needed IS a changing of icons and candles. Is prayer not a form of spell
> casting? Is not the concecration of the body and blood (bread and
> wine) of Chirst a ritual? Is not your praise a way of raising power to
> perform the works of God so fearlessly? Don't Roman Catholic priests use
> incense to cleanse the Church during Christmas and Easter masses? Do
> they not kneel in reverence to Jesus and God when they pass before the
> alter? I was Roman Catholic from birth to age 19. I have been studying
> and practicing Wicca from my 19th birthday 'till present. The parallels
> are uncanny. I would even go so far to say that Christians took the idea
> of mass rituals from pagans (since paganism has been around longer in on
> form or another, even the ancient Hebrew's were pagan before they
> switched to monotheism) because it made sense. I mean, what better way
> to praise a deity then to gather all your friends together in one spot
> and sing praise as loud as possible? There is no better testament of
> one's faith.
>> Unfortunately, Mr. August, you don't have the love you so claim you do.
> If you did you would have an open mind and an open heart, and in so
> having those you would know that to SHOVE/FORCE FEED one's beliefs and
> ideals on someone is morally corrupt and only shows in YOU a LACK of the
> faith you so claim to have. If you were trully of sound mind and body,
> you would be content to live in your Gods love without need to force
> anyone else into joining. Also, a different side of the same coin, you
> also wouldn't fear learning about another religion whose BELIEFS of
> love, happiness and peace are so close to the one's you profess so
forcibly.
>> It is truly a powerful experience to be in the presence of a group of
> people with such true faith. I see that everytime I visit a church (yes,
> I do like to visit other churches, not to "recruit" members, but to be
> in the presence of true faith) whose members are so complete in their
> belief that they DON'T look down upon me or even shun me or try to
> recruit me when I tell them I am pagan. THAT is showing Gods love, IMHO.
> It is also why I left the Catholic church. Most Catholics (and most
> Christians in general) are as morally bankrupt (and/or corrupt) as you,
> and because of their lack of true faith, they feel the need to be as
> loud and bigoted as possible in their "beliefs".
>> I am proud to be Wiccan, I am also proud to have been Catholic. I have
> met some truly wonderful and open hearted individuals in my life.
> Unfortunately, Mr. August, you are not one of them. Neither is Mr.
> Knight. Nor is Mr. Jd (wherever he went to). For the love of your God, I
> implore you, please cease in your constant put downs of Pagans, Jews,
> and Women. None of those groups are responsible for the troubles in the
> world. Morally bankrupt and corrupt individuals are the reason people
> like the CEO's of Enron (and most politicians around the world) are the
> reason why the world is in such a sorry state. Once people start taking
> more responsibility (and are made more responsible) for raising their
> children properly AND for making the decisions they do, then maybe we
> will see more open minded (and open hearted) people in the world. Who
> knows, maybe when that happens we will actually achieve World Peace. Is
> that not the goal of Christians? World Peace? Is it not the goal of
> Wiccan's, Witches, and Pagans everywhere? Is it not every soul's dream
> to live in a peaceful, safe world? Is it not your God's dreams? I know
> it is of mine. The Gods and Goddesses I praise and thank every day let
> me know through the miracle of LIFE and the beauty of nature that yes,
> they do indeed want peace. I cannot speak for anyone in this forum
> except myself when I say, May the Gods Bless You, Mr. August. May you
> see the light of true love and faith and rejoice in it. Instead of
> trying to find it by putting other people down, why not try to lift them
> up by truly understanding who they are and what they believe instead of
> relying on rumor and hear-say.
>> If your God is so forgiving (and I believe he is), then no matter what
> we do on Earth, as long as we lead a good and just life, then we shall
> all enter whatever paradise there is to be entered when we are ready.
> Love is not something you find by forcing anything on anyone. It's
> something you find, or shall I say it finds you, when you open the heart
> to the mystery that is understanding and compassion for your fellow man,
> woman, and child. I have not seen compassion, no, I have only seen
> zealotry in you and Mr. Knight. Is not being a Zealot against your Gods
> law, or at the very least, frowned upon? Was not Judas, the very one who
> betrayed Christ, a zealot? Yet God and Jesus still forgave him and even
> continued to love him, even though they knew what he would do.
>> Or are the words of a 24 year old too much for your "advanced" mind to
> understand?
>> I only hope you read this with understanding and compassion.
>> I wish only for you the brightest of blessings.
>> Sincerely,
>> Joseph A Nagy, Jr
>
