"John Knight" <jwknight at polbox.com> wrote:
>> ===
>> Main Entry: Jew
>> Pronunciation: 'jü
>> Function: noun
>> Etymology: Middle English, from Old French gyu, from Latin Judaeus, from
>> Greek Ioudaios, from Hebrew YehudhI, from YehudhAh Judah, Jewish kingdom
>> Date: 13th century
>> 1 a : a member of the tribe of Judah b : ISRAELITE
>> 2 : a member of a nation existing in Palestine from the 6th century B.C.
>to
>> the 1st century A.D.
>> 3 : a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of
>> the ancient Jewish people
>> 4 : one whose religion is Judaism
>> ===
>> Main Entry: 1Is·ra·el·ite
>> Pronunciation: 'iz-r(E-)&-"lIt
>> Function: noun
>> Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin Israelita, from Greek
>IsraElitEs,
>> from IsraEl
>> Date: 14th century
>> : a descendant of the Hebrew patriarch Jacob; specifically : a native or
>> inhabitant of the ancient northern kingdom of Israel
>> ========
>> You can believe what you want but the fact still remains that the
>Israelites
>> being discussed (including Paul) were JEWS by heritage.
>>This isn't consistent with the Holy Bible. No member of the Tribe of Judah
>is ever referred to as a "jew", nor is a resident of Judaea ever referred to
> as a jew, unless they were a jew.
The word "Jew" in the English language is DEFINED as "a member of the
house of Judah". The Holy Bible cannot resolve this, because it does
not define the English language; the English language is defined by
the usage of English speakers, and English speakers have consistently
throughout history referred to members of the tribe of Judah as
"Jews". It is quite possible to replace all instances of "Jew"
with Israelite, and most every English speaker except you would take
the meaning as being completely unchanged.
>All members of the Tribe of Judah, and every one of the other Twelve Tribes
>of Israel, are always referred to as Israelites.
Not in English they aren't. In English they are called "Jews",
especially after the separation of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah,
such that "Israelite" would be ambiguous as to whether it meant
someone of the kingdom of Israel or someone descended from Jacob which
would included the people of the kingdom of Judah.
As for the Hebrew, the word translated as "Jew" clearly arose
specifically to address the problem of what to call the people of
Judah after the Israelites (people of the kingdom of Israel) were led
into captivity. The Hebrew word for "Judean" is Jehudi which I'm sure
some expert on ancient Hebrew would confirm is merely the Hebrew
patronymic or genitive form of Judah, and hence literally means "of
Judah" (indeed your Strongs confirms it below)
But this interpretation of the Hebrew hardly matters because it is
accepted by English speakers that the word Jew means descendent of the
tribe of Judah, and no amount of hollering on your part will change
the English language.
>Your definition of "jew" above is suspect. Where did it come from?
An English dictionary, the ONLY authority on what English words mean.
Here's
>Strong's defintion, where "jew" is Strong's # 3064:
Strong's is hardly the most authoritative of English dictionaries. IT
is a concordance, designed to match English words with Hebrew and
Greek words. But English words never match exactly with words of
other languages - they are always approximations. Even so, you still
lose, loser.
>H3064
>??????
>yehu^di^y
>yeh-hoo-dee'
>Patronymic from H3063; a Jehudite (that is, Judaite or Jew), or descendant
>of Jehudah : - Jew.
Stop there. You've already lost. Because if you look at H3063 you
find:
>hdwhy from (03034)
>Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
>Y at huwdah TWOT - 850c
>Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
>yeh-hoo-daw' Proper Name Masculine
>> Definition
>Judah = "praised"
>1. the son of Jacob by Leah
>2. the tribe descended from Judah the son of Jacob
>3. the territory occupied by the tribe of Judah
>4. the kingdom comprised of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin which occupied the southern part of Canaan after the nation split upon the death of Solomon
>5. a Levite in Ezra's time
>6. an overseer of Jerusalem in the time of Nehemiah
>7. a Levite musician in the time of Nehemiah
>8. a priest in the time of Nehemiah
So H3064 is a patronymic form of Judah, of which the first 4 are
directly associated with the tribe of Judah, and 6 indirectly so
because residents of Jerusalem were of the kingdom of Judah per 4,
with 5,7,and 8 referring to other individuals, members of the tribe of
Levi.
Patronymic means "son/daughter of"
Thus there is NO question that a correct translation of Strongs H3064
is "son/daughter of the tribe of Judah or the kingdom of Judah".
>From G2448 (in the sense of G2455 as a country); udaean, that is, belonging
>to Jehudah: - Jew
Strongs G2453 (which is translated as "Jew" 193 times, "Jewess" twice,
and *of Judea* once).
>ÅIoudai'oß from (2448) (in the sense of (2455) as a country)
>ee-oo-dah'-yos Adjective
>> Definition
>Jewish, belonging to the Jewish nation
>Jewish as respects to birth, origin, religion
and G2448 is Judah corresponding to 1-4 of H3063
and G2455 is Judah or Judas, which could be the son of Jacob, the
apostle Judah, or Judas Iscariot among others.
So Jew in both the New and Old Testament clearly referred to a
son/daughter of Judah.
>But jews lived in Canaan, their patriarch was "Yhudiy",
That is not in evidence from Strongs H3064, which refers to H3063
which refers primarily to Judah the son of Jacob.
I shoulda looked for an online Strongs the first time you tried this
garbage. You lose again, liar and nincompoop.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/
for anyone who wants to verify what I posted.
lojbab
