"John Knight" <jwknight at polbox.com> wrote in message
news:lMYb9.31082$Ic7.2242385 at news2.west.cox.net...
> "Zayton" <zayton at bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:PaVb9.110241$%v4.5708015 at e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...> > > The only reference to a Benjamite in the entire Book of Esther is the
> > > following:
> > >
> > > Est 2:5 Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose
name
> > was
> > > Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a
> > Benjamite;
> > > Est 2:6 Who had been carried away from Jerusalem with the captivity
> which
> > > had been carried away with Jeconiah king of Judah, whom Nebuchadnezzar
> the
> > > king of Babylon had carried away.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mordecai is not the Benjamite. Kish is.
> >
> > John, if Kish were being called a Benjaminite, there would be no comma
> > between Kish and a Benjaminite. These are items in a series, all
> modifying,
> > or giving additional information about Mordechi.
> > In fact the New International Version translates the passage this way:
> > Esther 2:5
> > "Now there eas in the citidel of Susa a Jew of the tribe of
> Benjamin
> > named Mordechi son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish....
> >
> > Sorry, John; your crap won't stand up under even the most cursory
> > examination.
> >
>> The only reason for listing Mordecai's ancestry would be to point out that
> his great-grandfather Kish was a Benjamite, right?
Wrong. As I have just pointed out, it is not his grandfather, but Mordechi
himsilf who is called a Benjamanite. There was in the Middle East, in the
era in which this was written, and still is today, a great emphasis on one's
ancestry as the essence of one's idendity. At least three generations of his
paternal lineage, plus his tribal affiliation are, in a sense, his formal
"name"
Why else would they make
> such a big point of who his grandfather was,
No bigger deal is made of who his grandfather was than is made of who his
father and his great-grandfather were.
other than to point out that he
> was the great-grandson of a Benjamite?
But it is only by implication that we would assume that Kish is a
Benjaminite. It is Mordechi who is specifically identified as such.
>> And it WOULD be proper to put a comma between "Kish" and "a Benjamite".
Yes. It is proper to do so in order to seperate items in a series, adjective
phrases all modifying Mordechi, the Benjaminite Jew.
>> And if it intended to state that Mordecai rather than Kish was a
Benjamite,
> then it would have put "a Benjamite" first, but none of the credible
> translations do that, do they?
The NIV translation which I quoted, does just exactly that; though in doing
so it reverses the order which was common at the time the text was written.
Did that quote "accidently" get snipped, John?
Here's the proper way to phrase this
> Scripture:
>> (CEV) At this time a Jew named Mordecai was living in Susa. His father
was
> Jair, and his grandfather Shimei was the son of Kish from the tribe of
> Benjamin.
>> Take a look at how all the credible translators handle it:
>> Est 2:5
>> (ASV) There was a certain Jew in Shushan the palace, whose name was
> Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a
Benjamite,
Comma, seperating items in a series. Mordechi is a Benjaminite.
>> (BBE) Now there was a certain Jew in Shushan named Mordecai, the son of
> Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite;
Comma, seperating items in a series. Mordechi is a Benjaminite.
>> (CEV) At this time a Jew named Mordecai was living in Susa. His father
was
> Jair, and his grandfather Shimei was the son of Kish from the tribe of
> Benjamin.
>> (Darby) There was in Shushan the fortress a certain Jew, whose name was
> Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a
> Benjaminite,
> Comma, seperating items in a series. Mordechi is a Benjaminite.
> (DRB) There was a man in the city of Susan, a Jew, named Mardochai, the
son
> of Jair, the son of Semei, the son of Cis, of the race of Jemini,
Comma, seperating items in a series. Mordechi is a Benjaminite.
>> (KJV) Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was
> Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a
Benjamite;
Comma, seperating items in a series. Mordechi is a Benjaminite.
>> (KJV+) Now in Shushan7800 the palace1002 there was1961 a certain376
> Jew,3064 whose name8034 was Mordecai,4782 the son1121 of Jair,2971 the
> son1121 of Shimei,8096 the son1121 of Kish,7027 a Benjamite;1145
Comma, seperating items in a series. Mordechi is a Benjaminite.
>> (KJVA) Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was
> Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a
Benjamite;
Comma, seperating items in a series. Mordechi is a Benjaminite.
>> (RSV) Now there was a Jew in Susa the capital whose name was Mor'decai,
the
> son of Ja'ir, son of Shim'e-i, son of Kish, a Benjaminite,
Comma, seperating items in a series. Mordechi is a Benjaminite.
>> (WEB) There was a certain Jew in Shushan the palace, whose name was
> Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a
Benjamite,
Comma, seperating items in a series. Mordechi is a Benjaminite.
>> (Webster) Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name
was
> Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a
> Benjaminite;
Comma, seperating items in a series. Mordechi is a Benjaminite.
>> (YLT) A man, a Jew, there hath been in Shushan the palace, and his name
is
> Mordecai son of Jair, son of Shimei, son of Kish, a Benjamite--
Comma, seperating items in a series. Mordechi is a Benjaminite.
>> Where did your "version" come from?
Conservative evangelical scholars with a bias toward the KJV.
>> As pointed out before, if Mordecai was a jew, he certainly could NOT have
> been an Israelite, under Israelite law:
He was, according to the text a Benjaminite, and therefore, even by your
made up definition, an Israelite.
Joe
