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"AIDS Treatment News" online * New Issue #302 (searchable/indexed)

Andrew Walley awalley at radius.jr2.ox.ac.uk
Mon Nov 2 12:25:15 EST 1998

johnburgin at worldnet.att.net wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:07:27 +0000, Andrew Walley
> <awalley at radius.jr2.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> >johnburgin at worldnet.att.net wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:07:19 +0000, Andrew Walley
> >> <awalley at radius.jr2.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >johnburgin at worldnet.att.net wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:02:33 +0000, Andrew Walley
> >> >> <awalley at radius.jr2.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Just for you and your colleagues information:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Neutralizing and enhancing activities of human respiratory syncytial virus-specific
> >> >> >antibodies.
> >> >> Thank you, now please explain their role in the HIV=AIDS issue. jb
> >> >
> >> >Enhancing antibodies may
> >> That's what I thought, more b.s. jb
> >
> >I think it's far more obvious that you don't understand this subject and anything you don't
> >understand you describe as b.s. Just because your colleagues weren't taught about something
> >doesn't mean it is fictitious. As this is the basis of your arguments about HIV and AIDS
> Absolutely incorrect.  This is not the basis for my arguments about
> HIV and AIDS.  You brought up the "explanation" for "enhancing
> antibodies" and I simply discredited the inference that they might
> have some relevance in the issue.

You didn't discredit the inference you simply disagreed with it.

> >being unrelated I would have thought you would understand that. Equally, they will not have
> >been questioned on hundreds of rare disorders and diseases because medics
> Not medics, physcians, pathologist(also physicians), dentists, nurses
> in AIDS education, laboratory technicians in the HIV testing
> arena(shall I go on?)
>  need to know what
> >they will come across every day and not once in their career.
> Oh, excuse me, I thought AIDS was an "epidemic".  Nothing rare about
> an epidemic, is there?

It is an epidemic, whatever it's cause. Stop avoiding the point that was actually being made
that your colleagues are unlikely to have been taught about enhancing antibodies as it is not
something they need to know to do their day to day job. Especially the "dentists, nurses in
AIDS education, laboratory technicians in the HIV testing arena" where it has no relevance. The
only people likely to be taught about enahncing antibodies are immunologists, anyone taking
advaned immunology options in their degree or people studying for a Ph.D.

> >
> >The fact that I said "may" simply means that the majority of scientists
> How many scientists, what type and where are they?
>  agree it is the best
> >theory to explain published evidence. You are obviously don't accept how science works
> You obviously don't know me and cannot draw a conclusion like that
> with any basis in credulity because to do so would indict the very
> individuals who don't know what the hell you were talking about,
> haven't read it, can't find it, and therefore seriously doubt any
> chance of it being valid but DO believe that HIV is the cause of AIDS
> and are continuing with their treatment of HIV and PWA based upon
> trust in junk science like this that they ABSOLUTELY  DO NOT HAVE TIME

No -one has time to research every single disease. It is obvious that in any field you trust
your peers to provide information tthat you cannot spend the time obtaining for yourself. You
also skewed this back into the HIV=AIDS debate again which I did NOT bring up. Keep to the

> and
> >are unable to present logical arguments in a coherent manner, rapidly resorting to ad
> >hominem attacks
> This newsgroup is replete with ad hominem attacks against me, Todd
> Miller and anyone presenting an AIDS dissident view, so don't be a
> hypocrite like the other knotheads on the group sharing your mindset.
>  as soon as you feel threatened.

I'm not resorting to ad hominem attacks so I am not a hypocrite. You are for berating your
opponents for doing it and then doing it yourself.

> >
> >If you want to discuss the theory that HIV does not cause AIDS then I suggest you return to
> >the library and learn enough to be able to debate the matter openly
> Ask Peter Duesberg, who obviously doesn't need to go to the library to
> take all of you on, anywhere, anytime if he can have an "open" debate,
> free of "ad hominem" attacks.  You guys beat everything(to quote
> Sheriff Andy Taylor).

YOU were presenting this argument not Peter Duesberg. Peter Duesberg has presented data in the
scientific literature and the majority of scientists do not accept that his theories fit the
evidence better than the current HIV hypothesis.

> and rationally.
> >Dismissing subjects like "enhancing antibodies" as pseudoscience only alienates
> Excuse me, did it appear as though I was trying to have a meaningful
> discussion with you?  I'm sorry, I had no such plan.

Obviously. This 'discussion' is closed as far as I am concerned as you are unable to enter into
any kind of rational dialogue.

>  the very
> >people you are trying to communicate with and does your cause untold
> Define untold.  You mean censorship?  You mean more ad hominem
> attacks?  You mean no more NIH grants for research?  Please!
> harm.
> >
> >I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your basic argument
> Because you can't, won't or don't know how to.  jb

Utter rubbish. I haven't presented any data on the argument you want to have as it wasn't the
topic of discussion. If I thought there was any point arguing with you I would. As it is you
seem far more close-minded than the scientists you accuse.

Good bye and please leave the immunology newsgroup until you have something to say on the

Andrew Walley

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