Christopher Hassell:
>This is a bit of a spurious response..
Yup.
Vince:
>A successful Chimpanzee Human cross would make the idea that Humans had
>evolved from Apes much more believable to some of the more than 50% of
>this planet's population that still does not believe in evolution.
Chris:
>Then the above is a Bad Thing which would then be easily remedied?
I said "some of" and you should NOT construe this to mean that I think
this experiment would remedy that situation. If I had to make an
estimate of its impact it would be something along the lines of:
"1 percent less 16 year old creationists where the result was known".
A small percentage difference, but still a non-trivial number of people.
As for "bad thing" - in *my ethics* believing and teaching something
that is not true (creation) is a bad thing.
Chris:
>I highly doubt that anything other than a philosophical knowledge
>will come out of it for much of the world.
I highly doubt that anything would come out of it for most of the
world (very easily 95+% of the people).
Vince
>This would reduce the control of religion and religious leaders
>over the minds of people. In time, this might prevent a war or
>two.
Chris:
>I love this.
So you don't buy the war bit, even with Cypress, Ireland, Iran etc.
Fine, you might be right - I just said "In time, this might prevent ...".
How about reducing the number of people who die because faith healing
can not cure everything? My Aunt was a Christian Scientist and died
when doctors could have easily saved her. Again, this would only
make a small percentage difference but still a non trivial number
of people might be saved.
Chris:
>I am certainly confused where this War Prevention is.
>Islam could be picked on alot.. but not merely because of its leaders...
I said religion and religious leaders would have less control over
the minds of men.
Vince:
>Also, Creationists would have a harder time keeping evolution from being
>taught in American schools.
Chris:
>True. [...] It would help a little bit [...]
Vince:
>Children would get to spend more time on one of the most
>fascinating of scientific theories.
Chris:
>That would be rather silly to expect.
You agree that Creationists would have a bit harder time keeping evolution
from being taught but think it is silly to expect that children would
spend more time on evolution? Now *that* seems silly. Right now
evolution is confined to a small part of most biology textbooks (sometimes
a whole chapter, but it is confined none the less). I went through
highschool with around 5 hours on evolution.
Vince:
>This would get more kids turned on to science.
Chris:
>That'd be keen... and I'd say, given the above that it is a Good Thing.
Vince:
>To a scientist who already understands evolution the result would have
>little direct impact. To a child with a Creationists father, this clear
>and simple result could alter the rest of his life.
Chris:
>(eliminating the apparition or appearance of the second Thing appears to be
>more important than subtle references to devastating problems above).
I suspect that a slightly reduced number of children who follow in the
religious ways of their parents would be the real impact of a successful
human/chimp cross. However, I still think that in time the reduced
religious influence *might* help prevent a war.
Vince:
> PS Much of this discussion has moved off to a new mailing list. If
> you want to be on it, send mail to: vac+chimphuman at cs.cmu.edu
Chris:
>I was thinking about it.... merely for the complete list of Interbred species..
>and I'd like to see it if it could be posted. It looked neat.. given
>percentages and all... (maybe a pattern.. maybe not) ... and it would be nice
>to see Chromosome counts.
>>Post one eh?
I will. It will probably be about a month before I do so that it is
filled in much more. Yes the chromosome counts are in the current
table. My current list of hybrids will always be FTPable from:
furmint.nectar.cs.cmu.edu:/usr/vac/ftp/hybrid.table
Richard M. Kliman:
>As has been pointed out already, this newsgroup is probably not the appropriate
>vehicle for this discussion. Perhaps it ought to return to sci.bio, which has
>to be better than forming a private mailing list, devoid of new input.
This mailing list is not really "private", anyone can join. Sci.bio was not
much more helpful than bionet.molbio.evolution (i.e. very little help
at all in finding info - just plenty of opinions and ethics). As for
new input - only the mailing list seems to get anything new.
-- Vince
PS All of the science component of this discussion has moved off to a
new mailing list. If you want to be in on the science (as opposed
to the ethics, motivation, world impact, etc) send mail to:
vac+chimphuman at cs.cmu.edu
