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Distinction between ideomotor and ideational apraxia

Cijadrachon cijadra at zedat.fu-berlin.de
Mon Apr 26 05:15:49 EST 1999

(Maybe do READ to certain folks into vague motorics stuff.)


I did not get all the words,
but if I were to guess the what I call the sequencer has external
banks in the upper frontal cortex and like the front for the own
limbic areas  that upper one is giving the sequencer better (longer
and more parallel) tracking powers.

Long sequences might fail.

As long as the subprograms of the sequencer are still O.K. I guess it
would not worry me that much.

Back then when I had some concussion the sequencer managed to navigate
the body to collide with something about a meter high. 
Sitting on some chair in break time in some job I had back then all
iof a sudden I had to battle with it about it wanting to use the
seat-belt (none there)  as if were were in some car. 
Though I did not pay attention I guess it was over a minute that it
took me to override till  it "shut up" about that.

Parietal I do not know enough about.

Someone mentioned some stuff to do with it to do with parallel
external data processing. 

>and shifting smoothly from one movement to another. 

That one I do not understand enough about.

If it are just longer sequences chains getting stuck it would probably
not worry me much, but if it were sub-sequences stuck I might start to
read about what exactly areas of the striata is good for and 
if it is sequencing as such stuck I might read about areas of the
thalamus. As I do not know that much about areas and functions of the
sequencer, but that would be my first suspicions (that maybe some
other motoric areas than upper frontal cortex are damaged).

>ideational apraxia but am confused between the exact distinction between this
>and ideomotor apraxia.
Irxtlwrrks.  8-(
Any easy way to get this to the level of a retarded troll?

And I suspect that if you get it to the levels of some more autistic
folks than me who want all in the same place
so the sequencer can work segregated alone,
I would not exclude that some of them might have some better
perceptions about such.
And maybe even ways better are reports about people having had cancer
in the concerned areas and cut out, and what did not work after tht
and to what extent stuff recovered.

>We have been asked to write a discription of how this
>person would perform when brushing his teeth and combing his hair, giving a
>discription of every step undertaken.  What I wanted to know is if a person
>has ideational apraxia are all of their action bizarre such as brushing their
>hair with the toothbrush? 

I did not understand: Does that mean that his sequencer did that?
And if so when the own I noticed, were there difficulties to get the
sequencer to shift to something else 
with a sort of a stem and sorts of rows of hairs at a side of the tip

that is more appropriate for the task?

Actually with some humour the whole can be quite funny at times.

I tend to be utterly exasperated with my sequencer at times, 
as unfortuanately even without adult age brain injuries 
there might be points where I do not get how a load of areas that has
limited thinking and quite some autonomic learning capacities can be
that stupid. 
Maybe I had just some interesting thoughts or other stuff running and
am catapulted out to find the sequencer poking with the wrong key in
some keyhole where I have grumped at it beyond having bothered to
count which is the right key for that before, just that keys and locks
do not seem to pop up in the pre-stone age programmings it seems to
find considerably easier.

As our ancestors also do not seem to have had red and green
(cross-)lights in the forest telling them where to stop, it took me
years to get that ancient load of sectors to freaking do a reliable
stopping when they are read, and till now when the sequencer is tired
I would not put it beyond it to when tired ignore a red light.

I would not entirely exclude that (ancient) historically 
till a bit after reaching ape stage
getting longer hair on the head 
and inventing sugar
the concept of brushs for teeth and hair 
was strangely enough not that familiar to the sequencer.   ;-)

Stuff that has been for several mammal and maybe also earlier stages
of our ancestors might be easier.

> And when are they able to complete the task

Who they?
They own I areas with the sequencer?

Depends on the damages.

On LSD if the sequencer messes up for a change I might not grump at it
for getting on my nerves with stuff I regard to be its jurisdiction
and not mine, sort of inside-shout some commands till it gets it and
split off again, 
but instead for long times might be auxiliary sequencing power and
quite patiently compared to many other times,  
because it is my fault tht it is drugged and help it.

On LSD the problem is that if I stay docked with it too long, 
because my systems are also having rather erratic signals on LSD 
and there are seeming to be energy differences,
I do not want to disturb the sequencer by staying too long with it 
and also with LSD in synapses have more segregation powers.

So I am not sure if that method would work:

In my place I might simply tell the sequencer out loud the next
sequence steps and sort of withdraw but lurk till iut gets stuck
again, and then tell it the next sequences.

IMO we two thinkers are auxiliary CPUs for each other, though one
could not do all the other could.
So for me sometimes it is a little liking auxing along.

>Is it possible that difficulty using objects appropriately and
>completing componenets of a task in the correct sequence could be due to
>ideomotor apraxia,

I would not mix using objects appropriately (without even a historic
contemplation about them and the sequencer) and longer sequences.

For longer sequences as mentioned I believe that the sequencer might
use the parallel extension powers of the upper front like I myself do
with the lower.

But that with the objects I do not know, I'd have to think about that
longer, and I am not sure I might come up with an answer.
About the first popping up where the sequencer messes up with items is
where there are newer items, like keys, and it gets "key" and also has
the concept that if the lock doesn't open some different poking and
turning attempts might be needed, but does not necessarily get that it
is not the right key, which remimds me of the brush thingie.

But I don't recall the sequencer trying to eat a cupboard,
as it seems to know that wood like that is not nutrition.

Might be a stupid example, but I try to say that there is stuff like
old sorts of food where I doubt the sequencer would mistake to eat an
apple with to use an apple for using a drilling machine.

However with some things that are alike and not there in nature, it
might have more trouble.

My sequencer can think, but it is not very bright.

Also sometimes I order it to do something in a rather fleeting way,
and then get so busy with something else inside, that probably I make
a lot of signals inside with that, and at the time the sequencer lost
track (especially in the months after some concussion back then) 
I might have trouble to remember what it was that I had wanted it to
do, too, though once I get my two main memory systems to supply me
with data I want I might remember and then inside-tell the stuff with
ways more intensity to the sequencer and then it might do it O.K.

> and if this is the case then he would have difficulty
>initiating the task and knowing how the task is done?  

I do not know about that, you better ask some of the neuros about

I seem to dimly recall something about difficulties with the
initiating in context with some illness (neurons substantia nigra
Parkinson...?) but there the person might insist they know how it is

If not having Alzheimer or something like that, I guess even with the
front pretty off-line I'd still know how a lot is done if there were
not too many damages to my systems.

So I have trouble to imagine that one.

I guess I do not have the powers and accesses of the sequencer for
motorics, so maybe if there was something wrong I might have trouble
to get that one to run.

If something was real wrong with me though I do not know for sure 
I assume that the sequencer would be "auxing" for me a little bit.

Also the third emotion generator, like me a guardian, seems to have
the capacities to at times be in central control with the sequencer
under its command, but I am not sure about relations between those
sytems enough and this would get a bit complicated here.

>Basically I am very confused about the classification of apraxia 
  Basically I am very confused about complicated words 
am tired of guessing, and so far did not even get what exactly was
damaged when how much and how much recovering there was till now
and still seems to be running  and what the person is complaing about
exactly and does want exactly.
Not really important for me, though, as I guess I already said more
than I feel good with.

Merry classifying & irxtlwrrksing!


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