[Neuroscience] Re: Dendritic spine and Synaptic bouton content

Cervellone from gmail.com via neur-sci%40net.bio.net (by Cervellone from gmail.com)
Thu Feb 22 05:27:41 EST 2007

On 22 Feb., 03:35, r norman <r_s_norman from _comcast.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:03:33 GMT, "Benjamin" <Benja... from verizon.net>
> wrote:
> >"r norman" <r_s_norman from _comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:q8pot2tmjcshdgfpgn4lsol5fjfimfkbec from 4ax.com...
> >> On 21 Feb 2007 03:22:14 -0800, Cervell... from gmail.com wrote:
> >>>I think i will overuse all your mighty brains for a little while
> >>>longer :-)
> >>>After reviding my opinion on synapses and dendrites as static shells i
> >>>wanted to know whether there are mitochondria in both, synapses and
> >>>Dendrites. In fact they'd better be with all the atp dependent
> >>>processes but how do they get there? It should be difficult to attach
> >>>a Mitochondrion to anterograde transport and squeeze it through the
> >>>axon.
> >> Presynaptic terminals indeed contain mitochondria.  A paper describing
> >> their significance is  "Synaptic mitochondria are critical for
> >> mobilization of reserve pool vesicles at Drosophila neuromuscular
> >> junctions." by P Verstreken et al. (Neuron. 2005 Aug 4;47(3):365-78)
> >>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&...
> >> Google "synaptic mitochondria for more"
> >> As to dendrites, there can be mitochondria there, too.  See "The
> >> importance of dendritic mitochondria in the morphogenesis and
> >> plasticity of spines and synapses" by Z Li et al. (Cell 2004, vol.
> >> 119, no6, pp. 873-887)
> >>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&...
> >> As to how the mitochondria get where they are supposed to go, look at
> >> "Nerve Cells' Power Plants Caught In A Traffic Jam "
> >>http://www.physorg.com/news5610.html
> >Hi, Dr. Norman,
> >Good stuff.
> >My first thought: "It's the 3-D-E" :-]
> >There are several errors in the press
> >release.
> >For instance, calcium is not "the main
> >ingredient for proper neuron function."
> >All of neurons is of equal importance.
> >Everything's in-there be-cause it's
> >needed in-there.
> >Statements like this or that "is the main
> >thing" cannot be substantiated.
> >Yes, calcium is necessary, so is po-
> >tassium, so is sodium, so is chlorine,
> >so are functional ribosomes, so are a
> >g'zillion proteins, etc.
> >One 'thing' does organize everything
> >else, but it's continuous from the small-
> >est-scale to the largest, so it can't be
> >"parsed" into anything like what the
> >press release says.
> >It's the 3-D-E.
> >The [quoting from the press release]
> >"dMiro" protein ["stands for Drosophila
> >mitochondrial Rho-like GTPase"] is more
> >like an 'antenna' than a "motor" thing.
> >It's obviously correlated to "detecting"
> >3-D-E directionalities.
> >It's the 3-D-E that actually does the
> >Directing -- else mitochondria mo-
> >tion cannot possibly be correlated
> >with the necessary microscopic
> >trophic modifications to nerve cells'
> >structures -- so "learning" can't, then,
> >be coupled to the activation that act-
> >ually occurs 'within' the neuron.
> >Which is =everything= that "learning"
> >is.
> >I'm not saying the stuff reported isn't
> >interesting. It is.
> >It's 'just' that the 'same' kind of effect
> >can be generated in literally a g'zillion
> >ways -- basically, anything that alters
> >'normal' mitochondrial structural in-
> >tegrity will have analogous [if not ex-
> >actly-identical] effects.
> >Folks 'have to' learn to see that the
> >molecular biology is Directed by the
> >3-D-E -- that there're no 'magic bul-
> >let-holes' -- that the 3-D-E act every-
> >where simultaneously [of course,
> >in a way that's local to the relative
> >spatial scope under consideration
> >['ion', 'atom', molecule, organelle,
> >single neuron-glia complex, groups
> >of such, etc., all the way up to global
> >neural topology and global TD E/I-
> >minimization -- the 3-D E are =contin-
> >uous= throughout, and are what orders
> >=everything= 'within' the Biology [all the
> >way down to infinitely-small scale and
> >all the way up to as far one cares to
> >extend one's sensory perception and
> >the "volitional diminishing-returns"
> >decision threshold [AoK, Ap7.]
> >I =really= enjoyed following the link,
> >Dr. Norman.
> >Thank you for posting it.
> >ken [k. p. collins]
> Ken, you know I have some "issues" with your theories.  Still, you are
> right about Calcium. That was "press release talk".  Calcium is a very
> important regulator of many functions but calling it the "main
> ingredient" for function really is a bit excessive.  Similarly, the
> role of the particular Drosophila protein is also "press release
> talk".  It is always a problem to cite that kind of literature.  I
> realize that when I cite the primary literature, it is so technical
> that few other than professionals in the field can really follow just
> what it is about.  When I cite secondary or "popular" works like that
> one, then you end up with careless and overenthusiastic language and,
> all too often, oversimplifications.
> Incidentally, I might just point out that the abbreviations you use,
> like 3-D E and T/D EI minimization have great meaning to you but not
> to anyone else not completely familiar with all the details of your
> ideas.  You might do better to use brief phrases to describe your
> ideas.  I know you would prefer that we all read thoroughly your work
> and become familiar with your ideas but you should also realize by now
> that such an eventuality is somewhat unlikely, to be brutally frank.

Thank you for your links they were very useful. May i ask you directly
for your opinion in the STDP (Spike Timing dependent Plasticity)
Thread ? 2 Threads before
best whishes

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