From owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Sat Nov 6 15:11:55 1999 Return-Path: Delivered-To: vect-bio-archive@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Received: by mercury.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Postfix, from userid 110) id 8D86417A4E; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:11:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (niobium [193.62.192.41]) by hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13167 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:11:52 GMT Received: (from news@localhost) by niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id PAA13740 for vect-bio-list@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:11:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk: news set sender to using -f From: Peter Smith X-Newsgroups: bionet.biology.vectors Subject: Re: Small Pox destroyed? Date: 6 Nov 1999 06:48:42 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 25 Distribution: world Message-ID: <801f4a$hjl@net.bio.net> To: vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Sender: owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Precedence: bulk The last that I heard on the topic, wsa that this is now being heavily debated. From this, I beleive, that the stocks are still in the freezer. ________________________ Peter Smith Cal Poly Pomona James Atkinson wrote in message <7vhg71$37j@net.bio.net>... >Hi > >I just wondered whether or not anybody could tell me whether the World >Health organisation was successful in destroying the remaining samples of >the small pox virus as planned on the 30 June '99? > >Thanks > >James > > > > > From owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Wed Nov 10 12:14:58 1999 Return-Path: Delivered-To: vect-bio-archive@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Received: by mercury.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Postfix, from userid 110) id 528A117A43; Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:14:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (niobium [193.62.192.41]) by hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05825 for ; Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:14:54 GMT Received: (from news@localhost) by niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id MAA25086 for vect-bio-list@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk; Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:14:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk: news set sender to using -f From: Richard X-Newsgroups: bionet.biology.vectors Subject: Urgent ! baculovirus viral cycle needed Date: 10 Nov 1999 04:14:18 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 10 Distribution: world Message-ID: <80bniq$adv@net.bio.net> To: vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Sender: owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello, I need the viral baculovirus cycle or an article about (recent). Thanks a lot Richard delahaye@scientifique.com From owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Sat Nov 13 15:10:54 1999 Return-Path: Delivered-To: vect-bio-archive@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Received: by mercury.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Postfix, from userid 110) id D43A917A5B; Sat, 13 Nov 1999 15:10:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (niobium [193.62.192.41]) by hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26544 for ; Sat, 13 Nov 1999 15:10:52 GMT Received: (from news@localhost) by niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id PAA15183 for vect-bio-list@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk; Sat, 13 Nov 1999 15:10:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk: news set sender to using -f From: "Dr. Paul R. Earl" X-Newsgroups: bionet.biology.vectors Subject: Dengue Biblio & pictures Date: 13 Nov 1999 06:59:56 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 11 Distribution: world Message-ID: <80judc$37k@net.bio.net> To: vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Sender: owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello, I am sitting in Mexico hoping some kind sole will mail me aegypti, albopictus & virus pictures as I will have a dengue bibliography to Email out to those who want it next week. A few illustrations will help. All help--Email by scanner of course--gratefully received. Best Regards, Paul --- From owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Tue Nov 16 16:45:17 1999 Return-Path: Delivered-To: vect-bio-archive@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Received: by mercury.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Postfix, from userid 110) id B8B9417AF0; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:45:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (niobium [193.62.192.41]) by hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23408 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:45:13 GMT Received: (from news@localhost) by niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id QAA04124 for vect-bio-list@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:45:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk: news set sender to using -f From: "Dennis L. Knudson" X-Newsgroups: bionet.biology.vectors Subject: Amazon Date: 16 Nov 1999 08:33:04 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 61 Distribution: world Message-ID: <80s100$qkb@net.bio.net> To: vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Sender: owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Precedence: bulk ------------- Begin Forwarded Message ------------- X-Sender: mosquito@nac.net Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:49:33 -0500 To: ROBERTS@usuhsb.usuhs.mil, dknudson@lamar.colostate.edu, voorham@opas.org.br, ANDRE@usuhsb.usuhs.mil From: "Warren County Mosquito Comm." Subject: Amazon Mime-Version: 1.0 I have gotten your names and contact information while searching through the Mosquito-L archives for information about the Amazon and mosquitoes/mosquito control. The Philadelphia Academy of Natural Sciences is presenting a travelling exhibit on the Amazon at the museum from mid-February through the beginning of May 2000. They supplement these travelling exhibits with ones of their own and specialize in live animal exhibits. Through connections made in our public education efforts, the New Jersey Mosquito Control Association was approached to provide mosquitoes and input for a related exhibit which we agreed to do. Staff members will go to Mosquito Research & Control at Rutgers University to learn how to maintain mosquito colonies to be used in the display. We are also gathering a variety of information for the museum related to the mosquitoes themselves, mosquito borne disease in the Amazon as well as the connection with mosquito borne disease in Philadelphia, and control methods used by native people in the Amazon etc. Do you have any of the following information or can you steer me in the right direction? : 1) Mosquito species documented in the Amazon. 2) Mosquito borne diseases documented there as well. 3) Natural habitats that could be displayed in an exhibit (for instance when in the Peace Corps in Sierra Leone, I saw mosquitoes breeding in unused mortars left around homes but don't know of similar type items that could be represented for the Amazon) 4) Local repellent or control measures employed in that area. If anyone can help, we would appreciate it. If anyone knows of others who might be able to provide information, please let me know. Thank You, Christine Musa Co-Chair, NJMCA Public Relations Committee Director, Warren County Mosquito Commission ------------- End Forwarded Message ------------- =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Dr. Dennis L. Knudson, Professor of Entomology and Microbiology Department of Bioagricultural Sciences and Pest Management College of Agricultural Sciences, Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 USA Telephone: 970 491-7255 Internet:dknudson@lamar.colostate.edu Fax: 970 491-3862 URL http://klab.agsci.colostate.edu/ =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= From owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Tue Nov 16 23:40:49 1999 Return-Path: Delivered-To: vect-bio-archive@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Received: by mercury.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Postfix, from userid 110) id CEDDF17A4E; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 23:40:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (niobium [193.62.192.41]) by hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21698 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 23:40:47 GMT Received: (from news@localhost) by niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id XAA17588 for vect-bio-list@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 23:40:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk: news set sender to using -f From: "Dennis L. Knudson" X-Newsgroups: bionet.biology.vectors Subject: Re: Amazon Date: 16 Nov 1999 15:37:41 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 123 Distribution: world Message-ID: <80sps5$3l3@net.bio.net> To: vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Sender: owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Precedence: bulk ------------- Begin Forwarded Message ------------- X-Sender: degallie@pop.solar.com.br Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Dennis L. Knudson" From: Nicolas DEGALLIER Subject: Re: Amazon Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 20:02:54 -0200 (EDT) > >I have gotten your names and contact information while searching through >the Mosquito-L archives for information about the Amazon and >mosquitoes/mosquito control. > Thanks for your interest. >The Philadelphia Academy of Natural Sciences is presenting a travelling >exhibit on the Amazon at the museum from mid-February through the beginning >of May 2000. They supplement these travelling exhibits with ones of their >own and specialize in live animal exhibits. Through connections made in >our public education efforts, the New Jersey Mosquito Control Association >was approached to provide mosquitoes and input for a related exhibit which >we agreed to do. > >Staff members will go to Mosquito Research & Control at Rutgers University >to learn how to maintain mosquito colonies to be used in the display. We >are also gathering a variety of information for the museum related to the >mosquitoes themselves, mosquito borne disease in the Amazon as well as the >connection with mosquito borne disease in Philadelphia, and control methods >used by native people in the Amazon etc. > >Do you have any of the following information or can you steer me in the >right direction? : >1) Mosquito species documented in the Amazon. There are some 65 common species of mosquitoes that can be collected on human bait in Brazilian Amazonia. Other countries are also inside the amazonian belt , including a lot of forest variations (French Guiana, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Venezuela etc.). Foret variations are mainly "terra firme" more or less degradated or secundarized (by man), inundated "varzea" and altitude "cerrado" forests. Many species of mosquitoes are only canopy lovers and there are also specialized in day, crepuscular or night activity. The anthropophilic species of mosquitoes are also specialized in the place of human body they like more to bite (a study of mine). >2) Mosquito borne diseases documented there as well. Mosquito borne diseases in Amazonia are very diverse: mainly arboviruses = more than 180 different species among them some 36 pathogenic for man and some 5-10 may be transmitted as epidemics. The majority are clinically "dengue-like" (fever, rash and arthralgia) but some are causing hemorragic fever (Yellow fever) or encephalitis (SLE, ILH, ROC etc.). Many are bird-mosquito transmitted, with well defined preferences as to the level of bird activity in the forest (a study of mine) but a lot are rodent-, monkey-, reptiles or other vertebrates- transmitted: the wild cycles of arboviruses are thus extremely diverse. Other very important mosquito-borne disease is malaria but not so interesting as arboviruses because the only vertebrate host is man! Filariasis (of monkeys) may be transmitted also by mosquitoes but I don't know more about them. >3) Natural habitats that could be displayed in an exhibit (for instance >when in the Peace Corps in Sierra Leone, I saw mosquitoes breeding in >unused mortars left around homes but don't know of similar type items that >could be represented for the Amazon) Many species are breeding in phytothelmata (Sabethini): bromeliads, banana trees, tree holes (Haemagogus, Sabethes), leaves on the ground, other (Culex, Psorophora, Aedes) in swamps or temporary water on the ground. >4) Local repellent or control measures employed in that area. > a) In cities: breeding reduction and fumigations against Culex and Aedes aegypti (vectors of filariasis or arboviruses, and Dengue or urban yellow fever, respectively; b) In the wild: individual repellent and mosquito netting around the hammock; in fact, the people in the forest suffer no more reaction to mosquito bites, something like a natural immunization; this occured also with me after 15 years working in Amazonia. >If anyone can help, we would appreciate it. If anyone knows of others who >might be able to provide information, please let me know. > In a near future, I hope to complete an Internet home page where people would be able to see a list of my publication on mosquitoes and arboviruses in Amazonia. Sincerely, Nicolas Degallier. Nicolas DEGALLIER IRD C.P. 7091 LAGO SUL 71619-970 BRASILIA DF BRASIL Tel/fax (trav.):(5561) 2264813 Tel/fax (dom.):(5561) 3465974 E-mail: degallie@solar.com.br ------------- End Forwarded Message ------------- =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Dr. Dennis L. Knudson, Professor of Entomology and Microbiology Department of Bioagricultural Sciences and Pest Management College of Agricultural Sciences, Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 USA Telephone: 970 491-7255 Internet:dknudson@lamar.colostate.edu Fax: 970 491-3862 URL http://klab.agsci.colostate.edu/ =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= From owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Mon Nov 29 16:15:22 1999 Return-Path: Delivered-To: vect-bio-archive@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Received: by mercury.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (Postfix, from userid 110) id DF8C017A43; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:15:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (niobium [193.62.192.41]) by hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21255 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:15:17 GMT Received: (from news@localhost) by niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8) id QAA08044 for vect-bio-list@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:15:15 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: niobium.hgmp.mrc.ac.uk: news set sender to using -f From: BIOSCI Administrator X-Newsgroups: bionet.biology.vectors Subject: BIOSCI/bionet miniFAQ & Fundraiser Date: 29 Nov 1999 08:10:13 -0800 Organization: BIOSCI International Newsgroups for Molecular Biology Lines: 240 Distribution: world Message-ID: <81u8h5$8qr@net.bio.net> To: vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Sender: owner-vect-bio@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk Precedence: bulk (LAST REVISION: 14-AUG-99) This BIOSCI "miniFAQ" is designed to answer the questions that come up the *most frequently*. The main BIOSCI FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) is accessible on the World Wide Web at URL http://www.bio.net/. If you can not find an answer to your question in this or other documentation, the BIOSCI technical support staff answers e-mail queries sent to biosci-help@net.bio.net We can only answer questions about the use of the newsgroups and mailing lists. We unfortunately do not have the staff to do Internet information searches or answer scientific questions. Please post those to the appropriate BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. Contents: -------- 0) BIOSCI NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT!! 1) Using the WWW to access the BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. 2) What to do about "spams," i.e., junk mail, ads, etc. 3) Examples of subscribing and unsubscribing to the mailing lists. 4) The BIOSCI user address and research interest directory. 0) BIOSCI NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT!! ------------------------------ BIOSCI's government funding has been expended, and we are now operating solely from advertising revenue that we have raised from our Web site at http://www.bio.net/. We need just a few minutes of your time to help us serve you. You can do two important things which will take very little time for you individually and will immensely help us continue to help you. First, please use our WWW system at http://www.bio.net/ to access the archives. You can post or reply to messages via your Web browser as described in item #1 below. Your usage helps attract sponsors. If you contact any of our sponsors, please be sure to thank them for supporting BIOSCI. It is critical for them to get this feedback if they are to continue their sponsorship for the long term. Second, if you work for a company or organization that provides products or services of interest to the biology community, please pass this message on to your marketing or marketing communications department or other appropriate group. Please ask them to help support BIOSCI by sponsoring our Web site and explain the uses and benefits of the system to the biology community. If they are interested, they can then contact us for further information at our tech support address, biosci-help@net.bio.net. 1) Using the WWW to access the BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. -------------------------------------------------------- All BIOSCI/bionet full newsgroups are accessible through the World Wide Web (WWW) at URL http://www.bio.net. One can read and reply publicly or privately to both recent postings and archived messages through one's Web browser if it is configured properly to send e-mail. Each newsgroup is equipped with its own WAIS index. The main BIOSCI home page also has access to the BIO-JOURNALS Table of Contents database WAIS index and the BIOSCI user address database described in another item further below. 2) What to do about "spams," i.e., junk mail, ads, etc. ------------------------------------------------------- BIOSCI is a set of parallel USENET newsgroups (the "bionet" groups), mailing lists, and a hypermail archive at URL http://www.bio.net/. The same postings are distributed on all media (except for a small number of mailing-list-only groups at net.bio.net). Unfortunately it is becoming a despicable practice on the Internet (by a few people out to make a fast buck) to do automated mass postings to thousands of newsgroups and mailing lists. These attempts to grab free advertising are refered to as "spams" in the usual, somewhat boneheaded, net terminology. USENET is more susceptible to this practice, and many spams originate on the USENET groups and then are passed on to the mailing lists. However, spammers also get lists of mailing addresses and hit these too, so neither medium is immune. What should you do personally if you get junk mail? --------------------------------------------------- Just delete it and move on without reading it further. Filing a protest is becoming increasingly useless because spammers are often disguising the addresses where the messages are sent from. Unless you really understand Internet mail systems, your attempt at protest by sending replies to the message will often end up being sent to the address of an innocent person that the spammer is victimizing. What can BIOSCI/bionet do to protect its newsgroups? ---------------------------------------------------- The only solution currently available is to moderate the newsgroup. If this newsgroup is already moderated, then you are in good shape. Moderation protects the USENET distribution from about 95% of the spams that are being sent to date and protects the mailing lists completely. Moderation means, however, that someone has to take the time to review each message before it goes out. We have set up software here that simply allows the moderator to forward to an address at net.bio.net messages that (s)he wishes to have distributed. This takes no more time than that needed to read the message and pass it on, say about 1 min. per message. Most newsgroups currently have a discussion leader who is responsible for their newsgroup. The discussions leaders and their e-mail addresses are listed in the BIOSCI Information Sheet which is available on the Web at http://www.bio.net/. If a newsgroup is being hit with too many junk postings, please contact the discussion leader for that group and see if there is interest in moderating the group. Please do not assume that by simply posting a complaint to the newsgroup itself, anyone on the BIOSCI staff will act on your complaint. With close to 100 newsgroups to run, the BIOSCI staff has to rely on the discussion leaders of each newsgroup to report problems directly to us at biosci-help@net.bio.net. We will moderate any of our newsgroups if the discussion leader tells us that the readership of the group wishes to do so and if a moderator is willing to do the work. For most BIOSCI/bionet groups, this entails only a few minutes of work each day. Moderating a newsgroup will resolve probably 95% of the junk postings on the USENET distribution. Unfortunately there are easy ways for determined spammers to override the moderation mechanism on USENET, but we can protect our e-mail subscribers from unwanted postings if the newsgroup is moderated. You can also access our newsgroups over the WWW at URL http://www.bio.net. While this Web interface will not stop spammers from trying to post to the groups, this will give you yet another way, besides using USENET news, to keep the junk out of your personal mail files. For those of you with local USENET news systems, the Web interface will also give you faster access to new newsgroups and recent postings. 3) Examples of subscribing and unsubscribing to the mailing lists. ------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE NOTE: The BIOSCI management does NOT act on subscription/unsubscription requests that are posted improperly to the newsgroups and mailing lists. People who do this only bother everyone on the lists to no avail. Please be sure to follow the proper procedures below. Gory details are in the BIOSCI Information sheets on the Web at http://www.bio.net. Below we give an example utilizing the METHODS-AND-REAGENTS list at both of our two BIOSCI sites: Users in the Americas and Pacific Rim countries who use the BIOSCI ------------------------------------------------------------------ node at computer net.bio.net: ---------------------------- A) Determine the "listname" which is the <=8 character mail address ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ for the group. These can be found in the BIOSCI Info. Sheet. For the METHODS-AND-REAGENTS group the mailing address is methods@net.bio.net. The listname is the portion of the address to the left of the @ sign, i.e., "methods". The listname is used with the "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" commands illustrated below. B) Mail all commands in the body of a mail message addressed to biosci-server@net.bio.net. Do NOT send commands to the newsgroup posting addresses! Leave the Subject: line blank, any text on it will be ignored. C) In the body of your message put one or more of the following commands with an "end" command on the last line, e.g., subscribe methods unsubscribe methods end Do NOT put your e-mail address or other text on these lines. The server only allows you to cancel your subscription if the address on your mail header matches the address on our mailing list. Please ask for help at biosci-help@net.bio.net if your address has changed, e.g., if you know you are on the list but the server tells you that you are not a member. Users in Europe, Africa, and Central Asia who use the BIOSCI node at -------------------------------------------------------------------- the UK-HGMP-Resource Centre (known as hgmp.mrc.ac.uk): ----------------------------------------------------- A) Determine the "listname" which is the <=8 character mail address ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ for the group. These can be found in the BIOSCI Info. Sheet. For the METHODS-AND-REAGENTS group the mailing address is methods@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk. The listname is the portion of the address to the left of the @ sign, i.e., "methods". The listname is used with the "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" commands illustrated below. B) Mail all commands in the body of a mail message addressed to majordomo@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk. Do NOT send commands to the newsgroup posting addresses! Leave the Subject: line blank, any text on it will be ignored. C) In the body of your message put one or more of the following commands with an "end" command on the last line, e.g., subscribe methods unsubscribe methods end Please ask for help at biosci@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk if your address has changed, e.g., if you know you are on the list but the server tells you that you are not a member. 4) The BIOSCI user address and research interest directory. ----------------------------------------------------------- Please take this opportunity to add your name, address, and research interest information to the BIOSCI User Address Database if you have not already done so. You can fill out the address form directly through our Web page at URL http://www.bio.net/adrform.html. The address database is reindexed nightly for WWW access (the URL is http://www.bio.net/). If you are not directly on the Internet but can reach it by e-mail, please use our waismail server to access the user directory. waismail use is described above. You can also request a user address form by e-mail from biosci-help@net.bio.net. Please check your database entry from time-to-time to see if your address information is still up-to-date. Because of our limited personnel resources, we ask that you resubmit a *complete* form to revise your entry; we only replace complete entries and do not have resources to edit old forms.