On 10 Oct 1997 15:05:23 GMT, Karen Allendoerfer <ravena at cco.caltech.edu> wrote:
: In article <61kq76$2jc at zam201.zam.kfa-juelich.de>,
: Sabine Dippel wrote:
: >
: >To those who had pretty bad experiences a while ago: things are getting slightly
: >better. Meaning that there now are people (sort of ombudsman - is there a word
: >like ombudswoman?) that officially are supposed to deal with this sort of thing
: >if it occurs. Normally, every university department is supposed to have one.
: >Still, I assume that many women don't dare complain, because there is a big
: >likelihood that nothing will happen, except making the woman concerned a
: >"troublemaker" in the eyes of her colleagues and superiors.
: >
: This is the sort of thing I was thinking of when I said that it sounded like
: German women were faced now with what American women were faced with 20 years
: ago. When I started graduate school, 10 years ago, I heard stories
: about male professors at U.S. institutions that were similar to the horror
: stories described here--professors sleeping with students or throwing them
: out of the lab for rejecting the professors' advances (and the ombudsman
: doing essentially nothing constructive, the professor gets tenure and
: the student is labeled a trouble maker). I would like to hope that these are
: isolated incidents at this point.
:
: >Coming back to the problem women face in science in general -- that's one of
: >my pet peeves. As Karen mentioned already, yes, an extremely strong cultural
: >bias exists agains day-care. This has even greater consequences than it might
: >seem at first sight.
:
: I believe it. In Germany the store opening hours were also against
: working women--there was never a store open in the evening or on weekends--
: was it assumed that every household had a full-time stay-at-home
: shopper, able to do marketing between 9 and 5 on weekdays? But that
: is changing too, I found when I visited Germany this year.
:
: Karen
:
Hi,
so, let's throw another German in the debate. Yes, I agree with what Sabine
has said, essentially all of it. What I want to add is that as a result it
is not only the employers (men) looking down on a working woman but also the
women. I am working in Munich and living in the countryside. The fact that
I didn't stay at home when the first child arrived along with the fact
that my husband and I have different names has certainly set our family
apart from the others. Things are gradually improving - the financial
situation for most families in Germany is such that the woman will at least
have to work part time. However, working if you NEED THE MONEY is accepted.
Working because you want to PURSUE A CAREER is bloody selfish of a mother!
At least that's the message one seems to get. In fact, my own brother
despises me for what I am doing - his wife, a fully trained medical doctor,
is a stay at home mum. Now, I would consider that their choice and nobody
else's business but they seem to consider my choice their business of rather
their choice to be the gospel!
Also, the means taken to help families with the "extended two body problem",
i.e. deal with child care and try and allow the spouse to find a job in the
same area are zilch! It seems to be better in industry but in the
universities things are dire! In my particular case, I am expected to work
somewhere else if I want more funding through the major grant giving body,
they specifically said that they won't fund me any longer if I stay in
Munich - despite raving referee reports concerning the scientific aspects of
my proposals. My husband has a permanent job at the university in Munich
and we have two small children. No way can I move and work somewhere else
(on a two year job soft money basis). So far, my boss is pulling me through
with opening up unexpected sources of money though no proper job but I get
the impression that in the end it is regarded as funding my hobby ( with
the added bonus that if I succeed in my efforts I will be the first woman
at this faculty to get the degree called Habilitation which you need in
Germany to become a professor - being the boss of such a person may be one
of my boss's incentives in his efforts though this may be unfair). The
longer this goes on the more bitter I get. Swimming against the stream
all the time with very little help is tiring.
Are you sure it's only a difference of 10-20 years compared to the US?
Keep it up!
Sylvia
--
Dr. Sylvia R. Becker | Phone: +49 89 922094 39
Universitaetssternwarte Muenchen | Fax: +49 89 922094 27
Scheinerstr. 1 | e-mail: becker at usm.uni-muenchen.de
D-81679 Muenchen, Germany
