> Deirdre Sholto-Douglas <finch at MCS.COM> wrote:
>> : I'm sure some students classify me as mean, petty and vindictive,
> : but in doing so, they're giving themself entirely too much
> : importance. Picking apart isn't personal and it's not intended
> : to "wash one out". I'm the *easiest* critic these folks are
> : going to face during their career because I want them to better
> : me with logical arguments. If they can't manage someone who
> : would like them to succeed, how will they fare in the Real World
> : where people do desire their failure?
>
I absolutely agree! Unfortunately, however constructively phrased,
criticism is often difficult for students to accept. And
sullen defensiveness does no one any good; we're all grownups here.
Evans Kelly L (4klt5 at qlink.queensu.ca) replied
>> I prefer the non-confrontational mode of teaching rather than the
> challenging, stick-up for yourself, trial by fire mode. I think the
> non-confrontal mode accomplishes the same goal of teaching the student to
> think critically, but without making them question whose side your one.
Yes, but like it or not, the way science is done is by confrontation,
trial by fire, and constant negative feedback. At some point,
students (and others!) have to learn to deal with that, and being
shielded from it doesnt help them develop the skills they need.
Otherwise, they may give their first
real seminar, and someone in the audience will ask an aggressive question
and the student will break down. I've seen it, and it is ugly. And
more than anything, that mwill destroy someone's confidence. The world
is a mean place; you have to learn to deal with it.
This does not mean I advocate making people feel embarrassed or miserable,
espcially in public, but asking pointed questions in group meeting and
giving constructive criticism without being all touchy-feely about it is,
IMHO, absolutely necessary. I agree with Deirdre! No one benefits
if I just wander along holding their hands saying "there there."
We're educating these people to be our colleagues. That
means they have to be able to join into the spirited arguments that
make scholarly life. If you cannot defend your ideas, no one will
take them seriously.
> Furthermore, I find learning from example much more effective (i.e. when
> in lab meetings, journal club, the mentor talks out loud so that I can
> follow the thought process) than telling the student to go think about it
> some more.
But that can also be a crutch. Teaching people to think independently is
very difficult, and if you always lead them by the hand, they aren't
going to know how to get there by themselves. Even the best intentioned
student can get lazy if they know you are always going to give them the
answer/write the paper/ interpret the results when they say, "I Can't".
And then what happens when they go off to postdoc for
sharp tongued Dr Bigshot, who expects them to be independent? Who do
they think will explicitly guide them through postdoc and professorship?
> My favourite mentor taught us to read journal articles critically by
> allowing us to present the article our way, and then saying something like
> "look at figure 4 again, do you see anything wrong with that figure? No,
> well how about the scale on the x-axis? (or whatever was questionable)".
> This was much more valuable to me, then the other teacher who would say
> something like "what do you know about how to plot a graph? You don't
> know that the x-axis is wrong? Well, if you want to succeed in science you
> better start looking at these things!".
Well, obviously that is not the sort of thing we are advocating;
a journal club setting is more traditional teaching.
But there are times for traditional pedagogic methods, and there
are times for instruction in the ugly underbelly of how
science works. This is the hard, painful stuff to learn. The point is,
you have to recognize that people are trying to help you to
learn it! No one wants to make you unhappy, but no one wants you to
be completely unprepared for the sharp give and take that makes up
scientific discourse. This is not a career built on positive feedback
(I can't remember the last time I had any of that!); you have
to learn to make your way without others reaffirming you every
step of the way.
Deirdre is absolutely spot-on.
--
-susan
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