On 8 Apr 1999 bmartin at utmem1.utmem.edu wrote:
> In article <370A2C04.4C212B46 at pilot.msu.edu>, "Sarah C. Hunter"
> <hunters2 at pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
>> > Actually, in a way, Linnea, we don't and won't ever get how "hard" it is
> > to be a white guy. (Thank goodness for some things!) After all, they are
> > starting to be pulled from their privileged positions (which they don't
> > see as privileged) by forces beyond their control (us and other
> > minorities). Suddenly, we are asking them to work for what they have or
> > want, be put aside for jobs/assignments when someone more qualified
> > comes along, and accept that as being "right," "good," and "progress."
> > Which it IS for society and those more qualified, but NOT for the
> > individual in question. They aren't used to this.
>> You seem to be implying that males have never had to work for what they have...
No they work, often times very hard. It is just that the PROBABILITY of
return for their hard work is MUCH higher than for the rest of us. At one
university I taught at (as a dreaded "visiting instructor"), the person
who originally held the job was male, and taught 9 credit hours. The woman
who replaced him, taught 12 for 20% less. I came in and got 10% less than
she (because I was ABD at the time, I did not expect as much as she got).
So I was working 133% more just in classroom hours than he did for 72% of
what he got paid. The woman after me was offered 9 hours of work for HALF
my pay. Fortunately SHE laughed in their faces. They have since hired a
male tenure track faculty member. Now some of this could be attributed to
experience, but given the general hostile climate at that place, I doubt
ALL of it could.
A study came out by the AFL-CIO which showed that women at the same level
of education and work experience earn between 20%-35% less than their male
counterparts. Similar studies have been done relating men of different
ethnicities, with once again men of color earning only about 75% of what a
white male would.
I guess what I am getting at is that while white men do indeed work hard
for what they get, the rest of us have to work HARDER to get to the same
place.
>> Do you mean this? You don't mean to suggest that all white males have had
> the same easy time, do you? There has always been tension between white
> males as well, such as what schools people attended which provided levels
> of privilege unrelated to merit. The gender issue is another facet of the
> situation.
Respectfully, it is a totally different issue. I have seen groups of
infighting, antagonistic white males band together when a woman or
person of color enters the picture. They continue fighting for power among
themselves, whilst making sure that the rest of us are not even in the
running.
> [Snip]
>> > So, in a way, they were correct, we don't "get" how hard it is to be a
> > white guy. It doesn't matter. They don't really "get" what it is like
> > to be female. What matters is that we go on doing the best we can at
> > being our (female) selves and moving toward equalizing inequities we
> > find.
>> I agree with this completely. Both genders need to grow in their
> understanding of the situation.
Perhaps. But I would bet you that most women have a far better grasp of
male "culture" and ideas and opinions and needs than men do of women's.
Why?
1. Women are socialized to pay attention to the needs and emotions of
others.
2. Men (and white men in particular) make the rules for the
predominant culture. In order to survive, we must know the rules, while
the dominant folks are pretty much free to ignore the subcultures that
exist around them. This is true of ethnicity as well. When I first moved
to New Mexico, my Hispanic acquaintances were much more conversant in
Anglo culture than I was in theirs. It has taken a lot of asking
questions, observing without my own baggage, and above all LISTENING to
what people are saying to get to the point where I feel like I even
remotely "get it". I think it is much the same with gender issues. Men's
issues are the stuff of daily news. Women are condisered the special
intrest.
Linnea
>>
