Pat wrote:
> . I'm wondering if it's a coincidence that
> some of this website's founders are scientists? Here's that url
> again:
>>http://www.io.com/~wwwave/>> I find the third wave very exciting. It has been awesome to read
> articles by people who claim the right to define the name
> 'feminist' for themselves, rather than using it as shorthand for
> their agreement with an established political agenda. Linnea, would
> you like to tell us more -- since you actually know
> some of the third wave writers, and I've just been reading them?
>>
Well, I only know two of them and that only through email, and I think they
expressed themselves on the website.
Here are some of the differences I see between the two -- once again, I am
speaking only for myself and my experiences and the second waver I knew the
best was a dearly missed aunt.
The second wave had to fight a pretty big uphill battle among women to
realize that we SHOULD be equal and to claim that equality. I grew up with
that idea pretty firmly in place (even though I am one of the older Gen
Xers). It occurred to bother me, for example, that the community ice rink
placed more of a priority on hockey (confined to boys) than figure skating
(mostly girls) with the somewhat flimsy excuse that figure skates "ate up
the ice", and even that it was unfair that I was not allowed to play hockey,
even though in pick-up games I was quite good (probably mostly because I
could skate well).
I think that this difference makes us seem like we take the strides the 2nd
wave made for granted because, well, we can. Also, as someone (Faz?) on the
website pointed out, we weren't given much information about what the
struggles were. I knew because my aunt was very active in the fight, and I
was taken, for example, to things like protests in support of the ERA.
There seems to be a big difference in attitudes toward men. I think, once
again, the second wave had a pretty big battle realizing that women had
pretty good reasons to be angry at the patriarchy and at the day-to-day way
in which specific instances happened, and also the dependence on men that
was required due to laws and custom (I am thinking of credit laws, giving
the job to the" man supporting a family" and that sort of thing). The
realization that ones identity need not/should not be tied up in the men in
our lives was profound. I remember the point at which my mom started
getting angry over being referred to as Mrs. Paul Ista and demanding that
she be addressed at least by her own first name. I remember the, seemingly
silly to me at 10 years old, battle to use the term "Ms." I simply could
not understand the resistance to what seemed to me something quite
logical.
The third wave I think is dealing more with the ideas that although we are
independent from men in our identities and ideas of self-worth, we do have
to interact with them, and, for those of us who are straight, somehow still
negotiate intimate relationships. I think Janis on the website goes into
this in some detail. One thing that we have had to deal with is that it
seems that men of our generation are, as a whole, a little more resistant to
giving up their perks. My brother, for example, was raised in a very
feminist household, but it seemed once he got out in the real world, he
realized he still got all sorts of perks for being male-- and reveled in
it. I think this was fueled by the backlash -- it's cool, for example, to
dismiss feminists. I remember being nervous when I was younger that being
outspoken might make me unpopular with men. Apparently, however,
outspokenness is in my nature and I came to realize that men who were going
to be put off by it were not the sort that I would really like to spend my
life with. My husband, for example, thinks that it is cool that I will ,in
his words, "charge in like the Turquoise Power Ranger" and backs me up.
We have also realized that in order for this to work, we have to get men on
board. I cannot tell you how many "assertiveness training" courses I took
in graduate school, only to realize that I could be the most assertive
person in the world, but if the person with whom I am using these amazing
techniques with feels I have no right to be assertive, nothing is
accomplished. And no amount of protesting, bumper stickers, and candlelight
vigils are going to change that. For that reason, my brand of feminism
tends to be more one on one and practical.
Someone brought up that she was uncomfortable with distinctions between the
two waves and generational distinctions. This is not just a third wave
thing. Generational theory is alive and well in other places, Strauss and
Howe's books "Generations" and "The Thirteenth Generation" deal with
generational theories and Gen X respectively. You can find an overview of
their work at http://www.fourthturning.com. In general, GenX had a much
different upbringing than did the boomers and different experiences as we
entered adulthood and there are probably some overall generational
resentments that get carried over into the 2nd Wave/3rd wave thing.
I also wanted to respond to something Susan said:
"I have been told that my outspokenness on this group, as well as
elsewhere, is viewed as "militant" and may hurt my career.
But we have to work to create a profession, and a society, that
welcomes everyone's participation regardless of how they "conform" to
outmoded
and unnecessary standars. OTherwise, the potential of women and minority
scientists will be hobbled, and many great contributions will be lost."
Susan, I have always admired your willingness to speak out and the time you
spend on your website -- which is one of my favorites. I also don't see
what good not speaking out would do -- it would be just another excuse for
the "good old boys" to assume that what is going on is still okay and that,
as you say, the assumptions they make about who is worthy of being a
scientist valid.
Linnea
